Anyone had a chance to drive their Camaro in the snow? Potential Camaro owner inside. - ModernCamaro.com - 5th Generation Camaro Enthusiasts
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post #1 of 6 Old 09-10-2009, 05:17 PM Thread Starter
 
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Anyone had a chance to drive their Camaro in the snow? Potential Camaro owner inside.

I'll start off by introducing myself, my name is Brandon, and I'm the current owner of a 2006 Subaru STI. I've been considering trading my STI in on a Camaro for a while now, but there are a few things holding me back, and was wondering if a few members of this board would like to share some insight

To give some insight about myself, my STI is my daily driver. I have a wife & 11 month old son. I also call the state of Colorado my home & live on the south side of Denver (near to DTC to those of you familiar with the area). I am aware of quite a few of the drawbacks of owning a Camaro here as opposed to my STI. To name a few:

-We're at 5200 ft elevation... as a general rule of thumb, a Naturally Aspirated car loses about 4% power for each 1000 ft in elevation, whereas a turbocharged vehicle on average loses roughly 2.43% for each 1000 ft, meaning, an NA car up here loses over 20% as opposed to your average turbo car only losing around 12%. That's alright, I can learn to accept it

-I would be starting all over as far as "modding" goes, and as such, a stock 2010 Camaro SS is slower than my currently modified STI at this altitude. Again, I'm ok with this, making a car faster is half the fun.

-I'd be losing 2 drivewheels. Yeah, that might be harder to live with... since it's my daily driver, my car has to get me to work, and my son to day care safely everyday, to include sometimes less than hospitable winters (read: snow & ice). It's been a long time since I've drive a RWD car in the snow... and am curious about the Camaro. I'm assuming it performs similarly in the snow as the also Zeta chassis based 04-06 GTO?

-I would be losing 2 doors.... which, I think I could live without, but would largely depend on the size & shape of the back seat, as it would have to accommodate a rear facing back seat (at least for 7 more months, at which point the seat can be turned around).



I enjoy driving my STI, it's a very fun car in many ways. At this altitude, it's faster than 99% of the cars on the road, it has plenty of mid-range torque, grips like nothing else I've ever driven (short of cars on R-compounds), awesome Brembo brakes ect. It really is a joy to have a spirited drive in this car. However, there are several things that I've really come to dislike about it:

-The "stigma" that comes with owning a car that has a foot high wing on the trunk.

-Cheap interior.

-Harsh ride. To give some background, I've been driving sports cars for years, this is probably the harshest/bounciest riding car I've ever owned.

-Lack of sound deadening. It's one thing to hear a nice exhaust (I'm running a Cobb catted DP + Borla XR-1 cat-back, sounds great! Very deep, OEM looking, not ricey at all), I like the sound of a nice exhaust... but tons of wind noise, tire noise ect, on long trips it gets irritating. Subaru thought they would save weight by removing sound deadening from the car... great idea in practice, but makes it tough to live with & have a conversation with your passenger.

-Very twitchy on the freeway. Subaru does not employ a lot of positive caster (average is a whopping 4.5* on a GD chassis Subaru), which combined with very vague steering & a quick rack makes for a very touchy (read: nerve racking) steering feel on the freeway. Even with a Whileline ALK & rotating my control arm mount, picking up about an extra 1* of positive caster, it still feels like crap.

-Cramped interior. LOL, yeah I know I'm considering going from a 4-door sedan to a 2-door coupe haha. My STI's unique layout (boxer 4 being pushed back in the engine bay) leads to a serious lack of leg room, especially up front, as it's foot wells lack depth. If I have a passenger, this consistently leads to their knees touching my shifter ect. By comparison, I've been inside my buddy's 2006 GTO (same ZETA chassis, LS-series V8 motor ect), and his car is considerably more comfortable inside especially up front. I can only assume the same of the Camaro.



There are a number of reasons I've been considering the Camaro- LS3 V8 (HUGE fan of LS-series V8 motors), good looking, still fun to drive, not wrong-wheel-drive (FWD, it may be better in the snow, but I refuse to own a "performance oriented" FWD car) and I think it might address some of the things I've grown to dislike about my STI.

I have 2 major questions, which could be deal breakers:

1. How is it in the snow? Specifically on snow tires if possible, as that's what I would run in the winter.

2. Can you fit a rear facing car seat in the back without the person in the front having to be a contortionist?


If anyone has any insight, I would be more than glad to hear

Thank you for your time!

-Brandon
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post #2 of 6 Old 09-10-2009, 05:23 PM
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Dunno about the camaro, but my supra is n/a and i didn't see a big drop coming out to colorado from Maryland. I'd assume the camaro would be okay in the snow due to it's 3900 lb mass.. just get some good snow tires and you'll be alright, snow doesn't last long in colorado from what i've seen in the past 2 years.

btw- welcome to

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post #3 of 6 Old 09-10-2009, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by thedcorvette View Post
Dunno about the camaro, but my supra is n/a and i didn't see a big drop coming out to colorado from Maryland. I'd assume the camaro would be okay in the snow due to it's 3900 lb mass.. just get some good snow tires and you'll be alright, snow doesn't last long in colorado from what i've seen in the past 2 years.

btw- welcome to

Thanks for the welcome

For reference, on MAC Autosport's Dynojet, my stock turbo STI made 326whp & 408wtq on the stock VF39 turbo (puny 35 lb/min compressor) on E85. My buddy Dave's 2007 Charger SRT-8 (rated at 425bhp & 420 ft-lbs) put down 340whp & 347wtq, a whopping 14whp difference between the 2. At sea level, a stock turbo STI has a snow balls chance in hell of coming that close to SRT-8 power levels. Really, at sea level, at the crank the car should only be making 350-370hp, but due to altitude & use of the same correction factor that's not the case. Your average LS2 GTO on that dyno lays down around 330whp on that dyno. A stock turbo STI (especially with 2 more drivewheels/higher drivetrain loss) should be NOWHERE near that close in power... but, altitude favors the turbo car up here

If you've only been here 2 years, you lucked out buddy! You missed that nice snow storm we had in 2006, and the frequent snows that followed! That was the worst snow storm I've ever seen... I have pics of snow drifts behind where we live over 9 feet tall. Unfortunately I didn't have a garage then, and where my car was sitting, snow was up to the mirrors lol. The plow truck got stuck a couple times and had to be towed out haha. 2007-2008 by comparison have been really mild, thankfully

Last edited by roninsoldier83; 09-10-2009 at 05:45 PM.
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post #4 of 6 Old 09-10-2009, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roninsoldier83 View Post
Thanks for the welcome

For reference, on MAC Autosport's Dynojet, my stock turbo STI made 326whp & 408wtq on the stock VF39 turbo (puny 35 lb/min compressor) on E85. My buddy Dave's 2007 Charger SRT-8 (rated at 425bhp & 420 ft-lbs) put down 340whp & 347wtq, a whopping 14whp difference between the 2. At sea level, a stock turbo STI has a snow balls chance in hell of coming that close to SRT-8 power levels. Really, at sea level, at the crank the car should only be making 350-370hp, but due to altitude & use of the same correction factor that's not the case. Your average LS2 GTO on that dyno lays down around 330whp on that dyno. A stock turbo STI (especially with 2 more drivewheels/higher drivetrain loss) should be NOWHERE near that close in power... but, altitude favors the turbo car up here

If you've only been here 2 years, you lucked out buddy! You missed that nice snow storm we had in 2006, and the frequent snows that followed! That was the worst snow storm I've ever seen... I have pics of snow drifts behind where we live over 9 feet tall. Unfortunately I didn't have a garage then, and where my car was sitting, snow was up to the mirrors lol. The plow truck got stuck a couple times and had to be towed out haha. 2007-2008 by comparison have been really mild, thankfully
Lol, the LS3 is pretty easy to upgrade from what i'm seeing on the threads, i wouldn't worry about beating the Sti's power. hopefully we won't get any storms like that before i'm done school then... hoping to make my supra last a few years as a beater, not gonna happen if it rusts out

I bought a nice thick cover but that's about all i can do for my car right now, personally going to keep my camaro in MD if i can when i get it.

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post #5 of 6 Old 09-10-2009, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by thedcorvette View Post
Lol, the LS3 is pretty easy to upgrade from what i'm seeing on the threads, i wouldn't worry about beating the Sti's power. hopefully we won't get any storms like that before i'm done school then... hoping to make my supra last a few years as a beater, not gonna happen if it rusts out

I bought a nice thick cover but that's about all i can do for my car right now, personally going to keep my camaro in MD if i can when i get it.
Oh yeah, the LS-series motors take to modifications like a champ, no question there. I wasn't worried about making more power than the STI Hell, even at this altitude, it will probably do that stock, albeit not by much (now if only it had the STI's 3200 lb curb weight haha). I was only illustrating that turbo cars have an advantage up here. Really, at sea level my buddy Dave's SRT-8 should have been putting down an extra 45+whp over my STI, but because of altitude, we're only 14whp apart. That's the only point I was trying to make

I'm with ya, hoping for no more storms like that. On a plus note, when me and the wife were snowed in for a couple of days, couldn't go anywhere, so we spent the next couple days sitting around in our PJ's playing video games haha.
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post #6 of 6 Old 09-10-2009, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roninsoldier83 View Post
Oh yeah, the LS-series motors take to modifications like a champ, no question there. I wasn't worried about making more power than the STI Hell, even at this altitude, it will probably do that stock, albeit not by much (now if only it had the STI's 3200 lb curb weight haha). I was only illustrating that turbo cars have an advantage up here. Really, at sea level my buddy Dave's SRT-8 should have been putting down an extra 45+whp over my STI, but because of altitude, we're only 14whp apart. That's the only point I was trying to make

I'm with ya, hoping for no more storms like that. On a plus note, when me and the wife were snowed in for a couple of days, couldn't go anywhere, so we spent the next couple days sitting around in our PJ's playing video games haha.
nice.. i bet that was when school got cancelled for the first time in years lol.

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