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post #1 of 23 Old 10-17-2013, 07:17 PM Thread Starter
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Where will we be in the future?

As far as performance. 400 hp was a big deal in the early 90s. The Viper and the ZR-1 had those numbers and they were impressive. People who bought a Viper had to attend a mandatory driving session before they could drive off with their car...at least from what I think I remember reading. The Z-28 Camaros went from 275 hp to 305 hp with the SS getting like 325 hp...some of them (SLP SS, Firehawk Trans AM) reached close to 350 hp. Of course we're talking 98-02. Now we have the SS pushing 426 (LS3) and 400 (L99) and they run low 13s to high 12s...just like the Viper and ZR-1 did 20 years ago. So is it safe to assume that in the next 10-20 years we will have 600 hp Camaros as the standard V8 option? And will the supercars be even that much more better? You figure the ZR-1 in the 90s was only about 125-150 hp more than the top Camaro. But now the ZR-1 has over 200 hp more than the SS. So could we possibly see 800-1,000 hp ZR-1s and Cobras and Vipers?! The Camaro went from mid 14s to low 14s to mid 13s to 13 flat. So will they eventually come off the showroom floor capable of 12 flat?! Maybe a high 11? Sometime in the next decade or so?

At what point will too much be too much. I remember my 87 IROC with the 5.7 TPI being impressively fast when I got it. And it had like 90,000 miles on it when I bought it. And I remember the smile I had when I first test drove Nadia. But now I have more and more bolt-ons and I still want more...much like everyone else (except Patriotpa, lol). In the 90s, 400 hp made you king. Around 2005, 600 hp was awe inspiring. These days, 400 hp is bone stock and 600 hp is common. Some are even pushing 700 hp to the wheels with twin turbos and full mods on stock bottom ends. Where does it stop? Where do you all think performance will take us by 2023?!

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post #2 of 23 Old 10-18-2013, 10:20 AM
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I think in the near future (maybe within 10-15 years) things will start to head back to the way they were in the 80s... No doubt fuel prices will continue to raise, meaning more and more people running to the lots to trade in their big, high hp cars for some fuel sipping economizer. Auto makers will have to scale back production of high hp cars and make more economizers, making the prices of what few "cool" cars that will still be available go up into a price range that only the rich and famous will be able to afford.

Corporate Average Fuel Economy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As far as Camaro's go from looking at this CAFE chart, they're probably ok up until about 2018, but as the years go on looking at the year 2025, can you still see a mid 400 hp Camaro getting a 34 mpg window sticker?

Technology has come so far since the 80s, and thinking about it myself, what more could they possibly improve to achieve a 34 mpg window sticker, and manage to keep the high HP? Weight reduction? It can only go so far at the moment, while still maintaining safety standards that the auto manufacturers must follow. I imagine that will get worse in the future too, more air bags, bigger crash bars, etc = more weight to haul around....

I think now is a great time to be a car enthusiast, and to get them while you can, because while I don't think we are at the peak of performance/technology yet, but once we hit that peak and manufactures are starting to push the limits of the MPG standards they are to be held to as the years go on... It will all be down hill from there.

Just my prediction... Hopefully I'm wrong


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post #3 of 23 Old 10-18-2013, 05:11 PM
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How many HP can a battery cell put out? I'm afraid I have to agree that gas standards will be the death of the true muscle car ... for those that able to afford them, HP probably will be available but the average Joe is not going to afford one, much like the average person doesn't buy a 'vette

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post #4 of 23 Old 10-18-2013, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapel View Post
As far as performance. 400 hp was a big deal in the early 90s. The Viper and the ZR-1 had those numbers and they were impressive. People who bought a Viper had to attend a mandatory driving session before they could drive off with their car...at least from what I think I remember reading. The Z-28 Camaros went from 275 hp to 305 hp with the SS getting like 325 hp...some of them (SLP SS, Firehawk Trans AM) reached close to 350 hp. Of course we're talking 98-02. Now we have the SS pushing 426 (LS3) and 400 (L99) and they run low 13s to high 12s...just like the Viper and ZR-1 did 20 years ago. So is it safe to assume that in the next 10-20 years we will have 600 hp Camaros as the standard V8 option? And will the supercars be even that much more better? You figure the ZR-1 in the 90s was only about 125-150 hp more than the top Camaro. But now the ZR-1 has over 200 hp more than the SS. So could we possibly see 800-1,000 hp ZR-1s and Cobras and Vipers?! The Camaro went from mid 14s to low 14s to mid 13s to 13 flat. So will they eventually come off the showroom floor capable of 12 flat?! Maybe a high 11? Sometime in the next decade or so?

At what point will too much be too much. I remember my 87 IROC with the 5.7 TPI being impressively fast when I got it. And it had like 90,000 miles on it when I bought it. And I remember the smile I had when I first test drove Nadia. But now I have more and more bolt-ons and I still want more...much like everyone else (except Patriotpa, lol). In the 90s, 400 hp made you king. Around 2005, 600 hp was awe inspiring. These days, 400 hp is bone stock and 600 hp is common. Some are even pushing 700 hp to the wheels with twin turbos and full mods on stock bottom ends. Where does it stop? Where do you all think performance will take us by 2023?!
Yep, read it. Nope, don't care, won't bite. Let's leave it to our resident....well...we all know who it is.

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post #5 of 23 Old 10-18-2013, 05:47 PM
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I see more electric cars in the future.


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post #6 of 23 Old 10-18-2013, 05:49 PM
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Another reason I absolutely love my bikes!! They are absolute rockets (I have turned a 9.96 1/4 on the Monster!) AND get a minimum of 38 doing it with cruise mpg near 50.... And bikes will continue to impress in HP and MPG numbers down the road.

Now I know this is not apples to apples but at least I have both apples and oranges on into the years when my Camaro becomes long in the tooth and considered outdated!!!

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post #7 of 23 Old 10-19-2013, 12:03 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patriotpa View Post
Yep, read it. Nope, don't care, won't bite. Let's leave it to our resident....well...we all know who it is.
Haha!! Yea I hear ya!

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post #8 of 23 Old 10-19-2013, 12:08 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RacnJsn95 View Post
I think in the near future (maybe within 10-15 years) things will start to head back to the way they were in the 80s... No doubt fuel prices will continue to raise, meaning more and more people running to the lots to trade in their big, high hp cars for some fuel sipping economizer. Auto makers will have to scale back production of high hp cars and make more economizers, making the prices of what few "cool" cars that will still be available go up into a price range that only the rich and famous will be able to afford.

Corporate Average Fuel Economy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As far as Camaro's go from looking at this CAFE chart, they're probably ok up until about 2018, but as the years go on looking at the year 2025, can you still see a mid 400 hp Camaro getting a 34 mpg window sticker?

Technology has come so far since the 80s, and thinking about it myself, what more could they possibly improve to achieve a 34 mpg window sticker, and manage to keep the high HP? Weight reduction? It can only go so far at the moment, while still maintaining safety standards that the auto manufacturers must follow. I imagine that will get worse in the future too, more air bags, bigger crash bars, etc = more weight to haul around....

I think now is a great time to be a car enthusiast, and to get them while you can, because while I don't think we are at the peak of performance/technology yet, but once we hit that peak and manufactures are starting to push the limits of the MPG standards they are to be held to as the years go on... It will all be down hill from there.

Just my prediction... Hopefully I'm wrong
Quote:
Originally Posted by 83Hokie View Post
How many HP can a battery cell put out? I'm afraid I have to agree that gas standards will be the death of the true muscle car ... for those that able to afford them, HP probably will be available but the average Joe is not going to afford one, much like the average person doesn't buy a 'vette
I get what you guys are saying. But I don't think performance will die out. Remember in the 80s when everyone thought fuel injection was the end of performance? Things turned out differently.

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post #9 of 23 Old 10-19-2013, 05:39 AM
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High performance cars will always be around, as long as there are cars. In a free market, companies make what sells, and performance sells. Yes, we have CAFE, with it's onerous demands, but that's an AVERAGE. There's nothing that says it's illegal to make high performance cars. The market decides what auto makers produce.

A large part of the engineering for the high-mileage cars comes to us first in high performance cars. To get more power, we get rid of inefficiencies. A more efficient engine doesn't waste as much power.

James 1:25 Ordered from Faulkner Chevy #NKCF02 1100 5/8/9 2000, 3300 7/16/9 TPW 7/20,GOT MY (low) VIN! 4000 7/24/9 ,Picked up 8/7/9!!! Signed Litho #45. Car signed by FBodfather 2011. Service: Jennings Chevy in PA. We don't "drift", kiddies... we POWER SLIDE! MOTM/COTM Sept 2012 Pro Patria Vigilans.
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post #10 of 23 Old 10-19-2013, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patriotpa View Post
High performance cars will always be around, as long as there are cars. In a free market, companies make what sells, and performance sells. Yes, we have CAFE, with it's onerous demands, but that's an AVERAGE. There's nothing that says it's illegal to make high performance cars. The market decides what auto makers produce.

A large part of the engineering for the high-mileage cars comes to us first in high performance cars. To get more power, we get rid of inefficiencies. A more efficient engine doesn't waste as much power.
This is your assumption going forward. Not too sure that's always going to be the case. Just sayin'. Eventually, you'll be told which car to buy. I hope I'm wrong.

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