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post #1 of 17 Old 01-19-2014, 08:12 AM Thread Starter
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hello, considering mods at fast specialties in vancouver

Hello there! I am due to get some mods done in the future due to having funds coming and have been researching for days the best things to do for bang for the buck. What I have come up with that I would like to do soon with already having a CAI brand cai and scoop, oil catch can and separate clutch reservoir are this:



Install of comp cams ultra gold rocker arms with the 1.82 ratio upping the ratio of the rockers from the stock 1.7 ratio. This in turn would liven up the cam and make for more lift and duration without the costly removal of the front end of the car and putting in of a new cam with its costs. I know I may need to do springs and pushrods. I can see getting the rockers cheapest at Maryland speed for $419, and the springs for beehives around $200 and hardened pushrods for $150 if they are needed which I think they will due to the geometry change. Has anyone had this done? I think the stock cam lift I found from a gm ls3 crate engine website of a lift of .551 intake and .522 exhaust will be greatly enhanced to make it more in the nature of .600 lift and the exhaust around .570 lift a much more respectable and still very streetable and valve train friendly cam. I have not figured the duration gain and think of course it will make the car sound much more cammed than just the stock dual mode lets through.



I also at the same time want to install headers I found cheapest at Maryland speed for $712 for stainless power with high flow cats, the best deal I could find. Between those two mods I hope to expect gains with a dyno h.p. tune from Fast specialties to get me in the solid 500 hp flywheel range and hopefully around 425+ rwhp. I searched a lot of websites for various deals including jannetty, phastek, jegs, summit, autoanything, etc etc etc etc And determined this to be the path to the quickest and cheapest way to liven up my ls3, and plan on more mods in the future.



I am hoping to bring this in with mechanics labor and tune for around $2500. I just wonder have others gone down this practical path to making power as cheap as possible? If so please chime in.



For things I want to do in the future I would like a BBK throttle body, and have considered the vmax ported stock throttle body yet would put out the extra funds for BBK as it would be the 95 mm and larger than the stock which strangely I cannot find easily the specs on online ...It must be 87 or 90 mm? at auto anything I found a 95 mm for $306.84 , I also want to have sixstates upgrade my rear end to the 3.91 which would be just under 1 grand parts included. At the same time I would put in new trailing arms from BMR with polyurethane bushings for $150 , with BMR toe rods for $130 And a set of BMR tubular sways for $240 along with new cradle bushings for $250 and that should take care of body roll and wheel hop.

Once again the cheapest prices for the BMR stuff was at Maryland speed.



Jannetty did seem nice for including free tunes if you buy a SXT x3 scanner for a canned tune, yet their prices were a little more for some things like the headers etc.... And I know custom tuning is most likely required and best on a dyno.



And for this second round I plan on it being well under $2500 with install of the gears and rear end suspension parts going hand in hand and not costing any more than the just under 1 grand quoted as the revised rear sway is easier to remove than the 2010-2011 and the front being just more of a hassle as the rear has to come off anyway to get the pumpkin out.



SO that's what this old hot rodder has been up to lately thinking of the best cheapest mods for my ss, Anyone got a comment or tech info that would be greatly appreciated as experience sure helps. Geeze I remember the day when I could change cams in my driveway and pull engines and rebuild them so easy. Now I am doing the smart thing with this critical large investment I love. And this mod bug may die away for a while when I get this done as well, it gets spendy and this besides some visual mods like metal louvers and tinting are about what I think is all I need. Maybe............

2013 2ss/rs NPP CRT, Forged 428 ls3 stroker, Mast windage, GMPP ported heads, Katech chain, Trunnion upgrade, Cam motion stage 3, SP headers, Vmax PTB, Monster c7 dual clutch, Mgw shifter, Fluidampr 25%UDP, CAI induction, rocket racing wheels, clutch reservoir, bmr toes and trailing arms, Lpw diff cover , scanner, drl's led /fogs, elite catch can, MRT louvers, tint, ZL1 spoiler, stripes & badging, etc....
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post #2 of 17 Old 01-19-2014, 09:09 AM
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Sounds good! Looking forward to the results!


2010 2SS/RS A6 L99 Born 09/16/2009 Vin#9146985
ModernCamaro Car of the Month Jan 2013
CAI,Axle back exhaust, V Max Throttle Body
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post #3 of 17 Old 01-19-2014, 10:29 AM
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We've got a (mostly) great bunch of vendors and real GM performance experts on this forum. Give it a few days and I'l sure they'll steer you in the right direction.

That said, be SURE to read this thread... and read between the lines.

https://www.moderncamaro.com/forum/mc...il-thread.html

James 1:25 Ordered from Faulkner Chevy #NKCF02 1100 5/8/9 2000, 3300 7/16/9 TPW 7/20,GOT MY (low) VIN! 4000 7/24/9 ,Picked up 8/7/9!!! Signed Litho #45. Car signed by FBodfather 2011. Service: Jennings Chevy in PA. We don't "drift", kiddies... we POWER SLIDE! MOTM/COTM Sept 2012 Pro Patria Vigilans.
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post #4 of 17 Old 01-19-2014, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christianchevelle View Post
Install of comp cams ultra gold rocker arms with the 1.82 ratio upping the ratio of the rockers from the stock 1.7 ratio. This in turn would liven up the cam and make for more lift and duration without the costly removal of the front end of the car and putting in of a new cam with its costs. I know I may need to do springs and pushrods. I can see getting the rockers cheapest at Maryland speed for $419, and the springs for beehives around $200 and hardened pushrods for $150 if they are needed which I think they will due to the geometry change. Has anyone had this done? I think the stock cam lift I found from a gm ls3 crate engine website of a lift of .551 intake and .522 exhaust will be greatly enhanced to make it more in the nature of .600 lift and the exhaust around .570 lift a much more respectable and still very streetable and valve train friendly cam. I have not figured the duration gain and think of course it will make the car sound much more cammed than just the stock dual mode lets through.
The price you're gonna pay for all the parts and labor, you might as well have an aftermarket cam installed. A lot of companies are doing cam installs for the LS3 for $1,800-$2,500 all parts/tuning included. L99 cars are a little bit more. But again, for what you're gonna pay, and considering the gains, an actual cam would be a better deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by christianchevelle View Post
I also at the same time want to install headers I found cheapest at Maryland speed for $712 for stainless power with high flow cats, the best deal I could find. Between those two mods I hope to expect gains with a dyno h.p. tune from Fast specialties to get me in the solid 500 hp flywheel range and hopefully around 425+ rwhp. I searched a lot of websites for various deals including jannetty, phastek, jegs, summit, autoanything, etc etc etc etc And determined this to be the path to the quickest and cheapest way to liven up my ls3, and plan on more mods in the future.
Are you looking for the cheapest headers out there? Or are you looking for Stainless Power headers at the cheapest price? Try Ebay. If you really wanna save some money, then look at TSP headers, or OBX headers, or search the forum classifieds for some used headers. TSP and OBX with HF cats will run around $650 maybe a bit less. The money you save can go into the cam install. And you can save even more money by doing the header install yourself. It only takes about 2-8 hours depending. If you have help and some power tools, then you're looking at closer to 2 hours. By yourself with hand tools, you're looking at closer to 6-8 hours. But doing the install yourself will save you a few hundred dollars. That few hundred dollars (cheaper headers and self-install) will even things out with the cam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by christianchevelle View Post
I am hoping to bring this in with mechanics labor and tune for around $2500. I just wonder have others gone down this practical path to making power as cheap as possible? If so please chime in.
$2,500 will get you a LOT. Trust me. I've been tracking the amount of money I've spent on all my mods. You'd be surprised. So far, I'm under $2,800 for all the mods in my sig. Of course that is factoring in the old parts I took off and sold and all the shipping and all the cores I had to buy. If I didn't sell all the old parts, I would still be under or just slightly over $3,000. If you shop around you can save a TON of money. And BTW, even tho it sounds like they're giving really great deals, a lot of those vendors over on C5 are getting over big time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by christianchevelle View Post
For things I want to do in the future I would like a BBK throttle body, and have considered the vmax ported stock throttle body yet would put out the extra funds for BBK as it would be the 95 mm and larger than the stock which strangely I cannot find easily the specs on online ...It must be 87 or 90 mm? at auto anything I found a 95 mm for $306.84 , I also want to have sixstates upgrade my rear end to the 3.91 which would be just under 1 grand parts included. At the same time I would put in new trailing arms from BMR with polyurethane bushings for $150 , with BMR toe rods for $130 And a set of BMR tubular sways for $240 along with new cradle bushings for $250 and that should take care of body roll and wheel hop.
The stock TB is like 91-92 mm. The BBK is 95 mm. Even tho the BBK is larger in diameter, that extra size won't do you any good because the intake manifold opening is still only whatever size the stock TB is. You could save some cash by going with a ported V-Max TB. And again, that cash can be redirected into the cam money. I mean, the BBK is fine if you wanna go that route. But it won't get you any significant gains over V-Max despite being twice the price. Also, you have to open your stock TB and switch the parts over to the BBK.

All the suspension stuff is not something I can comment on because I haven't done those mods yet. But they are on my list. With all the money you will save, you can add in a set of lowering springs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by christianchevelle View Post
Jannetty did seem nice for including free tunes if you buy a SXT x3 scanner for a canned tune, yet their prices were a little more for some things like the headers etc.... And I know custom tuning is most likely required and best on a dyno.
Dyno tuning is better when you have more extensive mods. Like if you're having a cam or nitrous or a supercharger installed, it is better if a shop installed it and then dyno tuned it. But for bolt-on parts, email tunes are just fine and are significantly cheaper. Some tuners can get close enough to or even right where a dyno tune will be. I get my custom tunes from Diablew and they've been great so far. $135 gets you custom tuning plus free tune updates for a year. Try to get your hands on a used Predator tuner (they go for around $100-$170), or a used DS InTune (around $200). If you can get a new tuner with free tunes from a vendor for cheaper, then that is the way to go.

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post #5 of 17 Old 01-19-2014, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
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Yes I was thinking of getting a vararam power wedge to make sure the throttle body can open up, the vmax throttle body porting seems ok, yet it is just funny they charge two hundred for a core on a throttle body you can get for under 180...lol The cam is a lot more work than just opening up the top and putting in the springs and rockers. You have to take the front end off remove the radiator, take the timing chain off etc etc, and if I am ever going to have that done its easy 2500 for a good comp cam the springs to go with it and push rods, trunion upgrade, oil pump upgrade, timing chain upgrade etc, I know my stuff. I want to reuse the stock cam with higher lift making it better than factory by a much easier process which should save me money big time. The springs if I ever get a better cam would be along with the other parts what I would have wanted to replace anyway. I have thought about a under drive pulley but am not that into under driving my accessories just to make a little power.

I have looked a lot to get these prices, yes I will still be searching, and the BBK is supposed to gain h.p. and torque just as it is and I could resell my stock throttle body if I can. Then some day I could port the 95 mm for even more performance for that, and I do not know exactly the opening of the intake but imagine they made it 95 mm for a reason. I AM LOOKING FOR THE CHEAPEST "NICE" 304 STAINLESS HEADERS , that means these are imported by stainless works which has them made over seas and their regular lifetime warranty makes their made in USA headers cost about twice the price, where these have a two year warranty. I need to search ebay more I went there but I know things will change in time.

And if I were to ever port my intake down the road the 95 mm throttle body should be a better fit as it will maybe grow too from its porting. I have been thinking hard on this and I have a guy at work who just dumped a ton into his SS, he got a stage three comp cam, nitrous, hurst shifter, full borla exhaust with headers that's way too loud and would attract attention too much. Yes the lope sound of his cams idle is great, yet I know he most likely was not into upgrading everything. I know he has done nothing to the rear end, nothing to the bushings, etc etc. I do not want that, I think more methodical than to just give money to a mechanic and go here...........

I want my engine to perform better and just doing the rocker upgrade will make it be like a lopey performance cam. I am not saying I may not switch some brands as there are a lot of variables out there....like cheaper vs better....like why go aluminum vs steel for the lack of high end float as someday to change the upper rev limit to higher etc.....
I have done many headers in the past, these would be done all at once with the rockers and a tune, so I am leaning torward getting the throttle body first. Then someday just going somewhere and having them change the ECU for the gears to make that cheap. The hand held tuner I was looking at would lock after five tune changes to the same vehicle. And email tunes are not all that if its the first and last tune you will most likely do ever.
Some day this spring I will have come on here so you can see the damage and hear the Results....maybe do a utube or something so you can see, I am old motorhead, and why pay for a cam and its big bucks more to install when for cheapo you can have a 600 lift cam stock not a 620 you had to buy. Reliability does count and so does some gas mileage a little too as I know the 3.91s or 4.10s or whatever I settle on will not help it and its my daily driver, not something I can just throw money at and drive occasionally like the other ss driver where I work.

2013 2ss/rs NPP CRT, Forged 428 ls3 stroker, Mast windage, GMPP ported heads, Katech chain, Trunnion upgrade, Cam motion stage 3, SP headers, Vmax PTB, Monster c7 dual clutch, Mgw shifter, Fluidampr 25%UDP, CAI induction, rocket racing wheels, clutch reservoir, bmr toes and trailing arms, Lpw diff cover , scanner, drl's led /fogs, elite catch can, MRT louvers, tint, ZL1 spoiler, stripes & badging, etc....
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post #6 of 17 Old 01-19-2014, 03:42 PM
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Yes I was thinking of getting a vararam power wedge to make sure the throttle body can open up, the vmax throttle body porting seems ok, yet it is just funny they charge two hundred for a core on a throttle body you can get for under 180...lol The cam is a lot more work than just opening up the top and putting in the springs and rockers. You have to take the front end off remove the radiator, take the timing chain off etc etc, and if I am ever going to have that done its easy 2500 for a good comp cam the springs to go with it and push rods, trunion upgrade, oil pump upgrade, timing chain upgrade etc, I know my stuff. I want to reuse the stock cam with higher lift making it better than factory by a much easier process which should save me money big time. The springs if I ever get a better cam would be along with the other parts what I would have wanted to replace anyway. I have thought about a under drive pulley but am not that into under driving my accessories just to make a little power.

I have looked a lot to get these prices, yes I will still be searching, and the BBK is supposed to gain h.p. and torque just as it is and I could resell my stock throttle body if I can. Then some day I could port the 95 mm for even more performance for that, and I do not know exactly the opening of the intake but imagine they made it 95 mm for a reason. I AM LOOKING FOR THE CHEAPEST "NICE" 304 STAINLESS HEADERS , that means these are imported by stainless works which has them made over seas and their regular lifetime warranty makes their made in USA headers cost about twice the price, where these have a two year warranty. I need to search ebay more I went there but I know things will change in time.

And if I were to ever port my intake down the road the 95 mm throttle body should be a better fit as it will maybe grow too from its porting. I have been thinking hard on this and I have a guy at work who just dumped a ton into his SS, he got a stage three comp cam, nitrous, hurst shifter, full borla exhaust with headers that's way too loud and would attract attention too much. Yes the lope sound of his cams idle is great, yet I know he most likely was not into upgrading everything. I know he has done nothing to the rear end, nothing to the bushings, etc etc. I do not want that, I think more methodical than to just give money to a mechanic and go here...........

I want my engine to perform better and just doing the rocker upgrade will make it be like a lopey performance cam. I am not saying I may not switch some brands as there are a lot of variables out there....like cheaper vs better....like why go aluminum vs steel for the lack of high end float as someday to change the upper rev limit to higher etc.....
I have done many headers in the past, these would be done all at once with the rockers and a tune, so I am leaning torward getting the throttle body first. Then someday just going somewhere and having them change the ECU for the gears to make that cheap. The hand held tuner I was looking at would lock after five tune changes to the same vehicle. And email tunes are not all that if its the first and last tune you will most likely do ever.
Some day this spring I will have come on here so you can see the damage and hear the Results....maybe do a utube or something so you can see, I am old motorhead, and why pay for a cam and its big bucks more to install when for cheapo you can have a 600 lift cam stock not a 620 you had to buy. Reliability does count and so does some gas mileage a little too as I know the 3.91s or 4.10s or whatever I settle on will not help it and its my daily driver, not something I can just throw money at and drive occasionally like the other ss driver where I work.
The V-Max ported TB is $150 + shipping with core. If you buy a core for $100-$150 and send it to them, then they will send you the ported one. After you install the ported one, you can sell your stock TB which will make your total cost whatever you paid for the porting and shipping. That is the way I did it. Total price costed me $166.03.

If you buy the BBK, you won't be able to sell the stock TB because you will have to take the internals out and carry them over to the BBK. You might find someone willing to buy a stock TB with no internals, but it is unlikely and you won't get much for it. And again, the BBK TB has not made significant gains over the V-Max if any gains at all.

The Power Wedge opening is the same size as the stock intake manifold. So it won't solve any problems you may encounter with the BBK blade opening. I don't know for sure if you will actually have any problems with the blade opening tho. You will have to see when you get it. If you ever get your intake manifold ported, the opening will be ported but it still won't be 95 mm in diameter. The BBK TB is good if you get a FAST or Holley aftermarket intake manifold. Both of those have larger openings which the BBK will fit well. But just so you know, the gains on a FAST IM over a ported IM is minimal. I did all the researching before I went with my set-up. I can post the links if you wanna see them. If saving money and getting max performance is what you're trying to do, then V-Max and a ported IM will get you similar if not the same gains as a FAST IM and BBK TB...and you'll save several hundred dollars.

If you want the cheapest 304 SS LT headers then OBX and TSP are it. You can get both of those for cheaper than Stainless Power. You can get OBX with HF cats on EBAY for probably just over $600 shipped. TSP is probably about $40 or $50 more. Get them without HF cats and you'll save another $200. Both are good quality headers and have lifetime warranties.

For the cam, if you're gonna do the labor, then I can see why you would wanna just do the rocker arms. But if you're paying a shop for the labor, then again, you'd be a lot better off just having a cam install. The cost of labor and parts for doing the rockers vs the performance gains will make it the absolute worst bang for the buck. You're gonna pay about $1,500 after all is said and done just to gain 10-20 hp IF that. And you will need a dyno tune also. So factor that price in and you are right at the price for a cam install with all parts, labor, and tuning. And a cam will get you probably about 40-60 hp depending on how aggressive you want it. Those gains will sky rocket once forced induction is added. See, why pay for a rocker arm install just to later on decide you're not happy with it and then go get a cam install? You're gonna end up paying twice as much as you would have. And even if you do the labor, the dyno tune will cost an extra $600 approximately. Which will be worthless if you decide to get a cam later...or if you upgrade your car further later.

Either way you decide, just make sure you have all the info and know all the options. A cam install is not as expensive as you think. And like I said before, the price of doing the rockers and having it dyno tuned will by far outweigh any gains. I'm not sure if 1.82s will work well...you might have piston to valve clearance issues. Check before you buy. I will do some research for you if you want.

If you're fully set in your plan then go for it. If it is just a thought you've been kicking around, then there are ways that you can get a lot more value for your money.

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Last edited by Chapel; 01-19-2014 at 03:45 PM.
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post #7 of 17 Old 01-20-2014, 07:02 AM Thread Starter
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I am not seeing these headers on ebay your talking about anywhere, the cheapest there are some thing else and I don't want them to save $20. I have been thinking about the vmax but that's not a right away thing, and no where on the net can I find a comparison of the bbk results versus a vmax, only people saying yah I think the vmax improved my throttle response.....( I experience no lag myself maybe its a automatic thing). And labor to just replace the rocker and spring, way way cheaper than tearing the front end of the car off, removing the timing cover, the water pump ,the pulleys, the radiator, and then going after the top end to loosen everything and carefully removing it all. NO my friend this is performance on the cheap, and as a oldster I know this is the deal for me. No one around here I know of is going to do anything for cheap, if I want a good comp cam and want to upgrade the trunions on the stock rockers and the springs and the pushrods its gonna cost. They have to degree it and button it up and then tune it for the new cam. THIS IS NOT MY FIRST RODEO. Your talking to a veteran, the gains form this about 2 degrees of duration from the increased lift, the increased lift is changing the cam specs to make the intake go to.590 lift from .551 and the exhaust from .522 to .559 so I get a .590 lift int .559 exh more of a mid level performance cam form just a refresh of the upper end for a lot cheaper. And performance cams the best stage three type stuff is .620 around there... I am not that far off, and yes the duration increases from the increased lift. Yes if I went all radical I would have to worry about valve seal interference or spring problems but hey I want to change the springs and the pushrods if they are not hardened enough. Its as if your not trying to talk me out of this as much as if your trying to talk yourself not into it............lol Because I am set. Unless someone offers me a super duper cam change deal with all the parts its a done deal big time.

No there is no interference with the piston as the net lift gain is less than the real radical cams and dats da fact jack. And I am going with cats as your illegally driving a car if you do not have cats..........when the car came with them. I am still wondering if I can find a comparison somewhere of the two throttle bodies? some kind of performance test.
I already know about the fast 1 grand intake being only good for a power band and really no gain for a mild build as if I wanted to spend that much...omg. And yes the dyno tune is for the headers also not just the lifters, and the CAI, and all I will need later is a flash to change the speedometer for the rear end. $600 is a lot for a dyno tune you back east? wtf its $150 a hour here in salem. And hell yes I am still shopping around, and things are always subject to change......lol These rocker arms are not just some magic rabbit pulled out of a hat...lol they are being sold by major tuners like Phastek as parts of performance kits, hell I think SLP has them as part of a kit to get to like 480 h.p. and that's all they include with like maybe headers and a tune and a cai. and the deal is with a tune this will be just fine as it will allow the engine to take that extra lift from our high flow heads and make power with it!!!! hers a add for the most expensive ones I have see and they are 1.85 but come with springs.. I need to research myself alot more as I have not problem helping out do the mechanical work I just don't have a degree wheel, or even a garage and **** its cold outside....... And I wish I could do the whole cam and headers at the same time deal but that's too much money. I would have to do one or the other and end up buying a hand held tuner and just doing some crap deal with Jannetty to get free custom tunes buying their overpriced stuff.
Its all still in the works, I need to ask my friend at work where he got his cam done and how much because he may have got a special buddy discount? I dunno hes like management our security threat manager. I have seen cheaper rockers than what I am contemplating but would want quality, the point being the stock rockers are not all that and they rob 10-15 h.p., you add 10-15 h.p. to the equation with the rockers, then a tune to net many more h.p. from the gain of the cam lift increase and next thing you know its a totally worth it mod...... do you need a million articles to convince you of this? lol anyway hers a kit that's way overpriced by slp

Aluminum Off-Set 1.85 Ratio Rocker-Arm Package - High-Lift Springs/Retainers/Keepers



LS3 Aluminum Off-Set 1.85 Ratio Rocker-Arm Package - High-Lift Springs/Retainers/Keepers
Click to enlargeClick to Enlarge Download ImageDownload Image LS3 Aluminum Off-Set 1.85 Ratio Rocker-Arm Package - High-Lift Springs/Retainers/Keepers Image #



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Part #: 50190



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Description


Application


Installation


The SLP 1.85 Ratio Aluminum Rocker Arm Package is designed as a true bolt-on replacement for LS3 engines. These rockers require NO valve cover or cylinder head modifications. OEM-quality aluminum construction and a roller bearing trunnion results in a 10% increase in valve lift over the stock 1.7 ratio rocker arms and gains of up to 12 horsepower over stock. Retainers, keepers and SLP high-lift valve springs are included to prevent coil bind. Includes all necessary installation hardware and detailed instructions.

Rocker Arms Feature: ◾Made from USA 2024 Aluminum Aircraft Extrusion
◾Bearings are Torrington Full Compliment Needle Rollers
◾Includes Rocker Arms (1.85 ratio)
◾Includes new Rocker Arm Bolts
◾Includes new Pedestals
◾Includes new Retainers and Keepers
◾All Instructions are included to complete the installation.
- See more at: http://www.slponline.com/product/501....8XwkTMnM.dpuf

I like these though,

(16) Ultra Pro Magnum™ Roller Rockers - Bolt Down - GM LS3/L99/L76/Rectangle Port Heads
(16) Ultra Pro Magnum™ Roller Rockers - Bolt Down - GM LS3/L99/L76/Rectangle Port Heads

Product Representation: Actual part may vary based on configuration ordered.


Part: 1678-16
Price: $376.40
Weight: 8.78 lbs FREE SHIPPING OVER $50!




Quantity:




•For LS3/L99/L76 - Rectangle Port Head LS Applications
•Full Set Of 16 Bolt Down Rockers - Includes Bolts
•1.8:1 Ratio



New LS-Specific Ultra Pro Magnum™ Rocker Arms From COMP CamsŪ Increase Ratio And Stiffness Over Stock Rockers, While Also Increasing Lift Without The Need To Swap Cams

As LS engines continue to grow in popularity, COMP CamsŪ has expanded its line of rocker arms to build components specific to LS applications. New Ultra Pro Magnum™ Rockers are made from investment-cast 8650 chromemoly steel, utilize upgraded trunnions and needle bearings over stock and are stronger, stiffer and more durable than the stock parts. They also feature a 1.8 ratio (compared to the stock rockers’ 1.7) and utilize a roller tip instead of a slider. The higher ratio and increased stiffness make these rockers a great option for increasing lift without changing cams. This increased stiffness, along with the upgraded trunnion package and roller wheel, also makes them a perfect choice when running aftermarket valve springs. The rockers are available in a bolt-down design that uses stock rocker stands and in a stud-mount option for customers looking for an adjustable valve train. The stud-mount version is perfect for individuals running mechanical lifters as well. COMP CamsŪ LS Ultra Pro Mangum™ Rockers Arms are available for LS1, LS2, LS3, LS6 and LS-based truck engines and come in individual sets or kits featuring studs and guide plates. Kits do not include pushrods, but they are available separately.
•Increased (1.8) ratio & stiffness make rockers a great option for increasing lift w/o changing cams
•Investment-cast 8650 chromemoly steel body creates components stronger, stiffer & more durable than stock
•Increased stiffness, upgraded trunnion & roller wheel make rockers perfect for aftermarket valve springs
•Two designs available – bolt-down using stock rocker stands & and stud-mount for adjustable valve trains
•Available in individual sets or kits for LS1, LS2, LS3, LS6 & LS-based truck applications
•Limited Lifetime Warranty - So strong that we guarantee the rocker bodies against breakage for life. For use with up to 850 lbs of open spring pressure!

the thing is If I do this I may just decide to heck save up the parts and do it all at once in two years with saving money from tax returns by hoarding parts much to my wifes dismay... I owe I owe so off to work I go. I really deep down would love to do a cam and new springs and rockers that are the same as stock only not too much. I understand the timing gear and oil pump need to be changed to better, and a ls2 tensioner for the timing chain is a good thing as cams are three bolt not one bolt.

Well heck here, I will leave you with a nice tech article on what kind of cam I would maybe really like if I could afford it. **** it man ................ Don't make me get a cam first arggggg maybe I should get the headers and handheld, then squirrel away......... And ditch the rear end gear change for like forever as it only revs up some more and costs gas, and just do bushings and sway bars with trailing arms when its header time? Oh its all such a long dang thing to figure out, and how to save money in the process. Heck maybe I should just get jethro to stick that 500 hp nitrous tank in the trunk and open the valve to light off the exhaust.

anyway lol I like this cam profile when looking it up.......

LS3 Heads and Cam Test - Ported Heads Versus a Camshaft Swap on the Dyno - GM High-Tech Performance Magazine

LSR™ Cathedral Port, 281LR HR13
Very Wide Power Range & Excellent Mid-Range
LSR™ Cathedral Port, 281LR HR13<BR>Very Wide Power Range & Excellent Mid-Range

Product Representation: Actual part may vary based on configuration ordered.


Part: 54-459-11
Price: $399.68
Weight: 10.16 lbs FREE SHIPPING OVER $50!



then you add the springs the rockers the timing gear the push rods the oil pump the gaskets and then the reason most of us do not do a cam upgrade....the money

And I thought we had rectangular l92 heads not cathedral port heads>? I dunno, heck just what I can read on the net. well off in search of prices again.................

2013 2ss/rs NPP CRT, Forged 428 ls3 stroker, Mast windage, GMPP ported heads, Katech chain, Trunnion upgrade, Cam motion stage 3, SP headers, Vmax PTB, Monster c7 dual clutch, Mgw shifter, Fluidampr 25%UDP, CAI induction, rocket racing wheels, clutch reservoir, bmr toes and trailing arms, Lpw diff cover , scanner, drl's led /fogs, elite catch can, MRT louvers, tint, ZL1 spoiler, stripes & badging, etc....
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post #8 of 17 Old 01-20-2014, 08:51 AM Thread Starter
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well heck was checking and the whole front end does not exactly have to come off, and that's great yet I guess you have to heat treat the new springs by running the engine like in a cam break in, then letting them cool. I also never hear anything about new pushrods or their lengths being adjusted for the different cam, and am sure the stock rockers could use at least a trunion upgrade. Maybe they call our heads cathedral port? I just think long rectangular.......... Still I like to upgrade rockers when doing a cam, but well who knows. I also read somewhere about a better timing chain itself that is less prone to breakage which is really important as anything.

2013 2ss/rs NPP CRT, Forged 428 ls3 stroker, Mast windage, GMPP ported heads, Katech chain, Trunnion upgrade, Cam motion stage 3, SP headers, Vmax PTB, Monster c7 dual clutch, Mgw shifter, Fluidampr 25%UDP, CAI induction, rocket racing wheels, clutch reservoir, bmr toes and trailing arms, Lpw diff cover , scanner, drl's led /fogs, elite catch can, MRT louvers, tint, ZL1 spoiler, stripes & badging, etc....
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post #9 of 17 Old 01-20-2014, 10:00 AM
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Just to be clear, I never questioned your knowledge, skill set, or experience. Like I said before, if you have it already planned out, and you're sure that is the route you wanna go, then I'm all for it and I hope you keep us updated.

What I am saying tho is this. I know a rocker arm upgrade will be cheaper than a cam swap. That much is obvious. However, the price of the rocker arm install (parts and labor) will seriously outweigh the performance gains. You will gain more lift, but that will only get you a small amount of hp. Like less than 20...probably less than 10. Not to mention potential issues you may have with the rest of the OEM valvetrain. All the numbers you listed at the end of the day will still only add up to a minimal amount of hp. A cold air intake will get you way more hp than a rocker arm upgrade and they only cost $300-$400. This type of upgrade is not recommended. If you do decide to do it, then just be VERY careful, do all the math, and check with knowledgeable companies. Regardless of how much you know, you would do well to listen to the experts.
If you think it will be worth it on a bang for the buck budget AFTER factoring in the cost of dyno tuning, then I'd say go ahead and do it.




1.8 Rocker Arms - 20RWHP - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com

This one is on a 4th Gen Formula
dyno numbers for slp 1.85 rockers - LS1TECH



Here is a V-Max throttle body swap dyno


Here is another one...no baseline results tho

As far as BBK, there are no independent third party dyno tests. All the dynos online are ads from BBK.


Here are the OBX headers without HF cats
OBX Exhaust Headers 10 11 Chevrolet Camaro SS 6 2L V8 Header | eBay


Here they are again with best offer option and free shipping
OBX Exhaust Headers Long Tube 2010 Chevy Camaro SS V8 6 2L LS3 | eBay


Here are the catted versions with best offer option and free shipping
OBX Catted Exhaust Header 2010 Up Camaro SS V8 6 2L LS3 Chevy Chevrolet | eBay

2017 Camaro ZL-1 A10

2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee Hemi 5.7 - Tuned!!

Proud to be the March 2013 Member Of The Month!
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post #10 of 17 Old 01-21-2014, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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thanks chapel. Hey I got emails back from some shops and comp cams. They said I could use the stock push rods but would have to change springs which I figured and go for taller valve covers.....arg. Figures, I guess the lifters go higher than regular lifters with just a increased lobe. SO I am thinking o.k. screw that Idea. I mean I have done it before but oh well, the cost versus the gain is too great in a way compared to good old SBC engine that's dirt cheap to work on.

Having priced everything to get what I want for a cam kit, headers, and a tuner at Jannety is $3000 just for parts and gaskets etc with the kit to upgrade the lifter trunions that are stock and the springs and hardened pushrods and timing gear. Their price is far from the cheapest, but they give free tune updates for whatever you buy. (like your not paying out the yang for them already). That would include a CR5 timing chain for 170 to make sure it stayed together. And add 136 for a melling oil pump recommended, but yet then you have to take the pan off for that........ and wonder if it is really necessary as our oiling is fine, yet must be cautious as to be smart. SO add to that the labor cost to install the cam, the headers should be the most like $300, and the whole deal may cost 5 grand.... Too much to fathom at once. I may just get the headers and the tuner for now, and get it to about 425 h.p. as I have the dual mode exhaust and that's supposed to be worth ten more than stock figures, and the CAI I already have with the scoop.

I just wish like heck there was a place that had better prices and gave free tunes for anything like that mustang place does, I looked up the obx headers they look nice. The thing is I do not want to have to pay for tunes that could get spendy if I do not do things all at once in a year or something. And the place in Vancouver wants $500 for a tune on the dyno, that's friggin a lot considering I have bought cars for that. I am pretty confident that it would have made the car sound a lot more sweet and made good power because our stock cams are not that lame really. Its just that I would have been left to get a dyno to adjust the air fuel for five hundred, and for that heck why not buy a tuner and pay a little more for a few parts to get free tunes with them.
When I added up the parts of the jannetty kit it was a little steep but it came with a $400 cam, a $200 set of springs at least, $150 in pushrods, $200 trunion upgrade ( wished it was better roller rockers), and the timing gear $30, then added in the gasket etc.
Well here from their website:
Our JRE 470HP RWHP Cam Package is a hit among our customers. Not only does it sound absolutely wicked, but it makes for an extremely fun ride on the street. This package will certainly turn some heads. NOTE: This Package is designed for LS3 Vehicles, To make this package work on an L99 Car, additional parts are required, please contact us for details.

Also note this package requires our 415RWHP Street Package, as it has the supporting mods required to complete this package. Also requires SLP Underdrive Pulley to achieve this number.

This package includes: $1,467.81

JRE Custom Ground 3 Bolt Camshaft
Valve Springs
Spring Seats
Valve Seals
Locks
Retainers
LS Trunion Upgrade
Crankbolt
Cam Sprocket Bolt
Timing Cover Gasket
Front Crank Seal
Camshaft Timing Chain Gear
Hardened Pushrods

I mean I am not trilled by the price I think it like $400 steep as just like I can get headers for cheaper from Maryland speed for $712 that jannety wants $899 retail for. Heck I might want to go and do what you do to get tunes for money, add $400 plus $177 and well it really makes you think Is it worth $500 I figure for valve seals locks retainers and a timing chain gasket? No..... But they need to give me some specs before I pass judgement? I mean some places call a cam just a "rough idle cam" like wow we are 12 years old not wanting any specs for the lobes of the cams duration or lift..? They also offer what more likely I would choose is a more valve train friendly cam package for the same price which is called the "endurance" package that is supposed to be 20 less h.p., and once again no spec's I have to ask for them... Arghhh I get this you are supposed to be stupid thing from these aftermarket speed shops that annoys me and probably a lot of us old rodders. I was putting in cams when some of their techs were not even in diapers.
But what the heck you want new you gotta pay to play.
Maybe I should just build on my platform, and squirrel away parts? then bite the bullet. I have to get some quotes. I used to know some good good machinists, maybe I should call them and find the skinny on whos cheap and good. Also I should talk to this Wong fellow and hear from him as others, as a more dedicated to g.m. place rather than a varied place could be just the ticket as they would know the tricks like easy things to save time and money on the ls3, he might even want my old parts for some trade in?
Gosh new is expensive now adays, man some times I wish I just built an old school rod again, then I get in my Camaro and drive on the freeway like luxuryville , it might as well be a rolls Royce with HUD and blue tooth, easy steering wheel controls man its heaven on the bumps too.

Have you done any polyeurythane bushings yet?Ooops gotta go cats in my face.........lol Have a good day.

2013 2ss/rs NPP CRT, Forged 428 ls3 stroker, Mast windage, GMPP ported heads, Katech chain, Trunnion upgrade, Cam motion stage 3, SP headers, Vmax PTB, Monster c7 dual clutch, Mgw shifter, Fluidampr 25%UDP, CAI induction, rocket racing wheels, clutch reservoir, bmr toes and trailing arms, Lpw diff cover , scanner, drl's led /fogs, elite catch can, MRT louvers, tint, ZL1 spoiler, stripes & badging, etc....

Last edited by christianchevelle; 01-21-2014 at 05:32 PM.
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