Rub Mark repair, TSBs and the true story... - ModernCamaro.com - 5th Generation Camaro Enthusiasts
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post #1 of 20 Old 04-07-2012, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
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Rub Mark repair, TSBs and the true story...

OK ladies and gents; I haven't seen anything on this site yet, so I'll spread the word...

Many vert owners like myself, have experienced the "V" and/or "crescent" shaped rub/wear marks above the windows on the front sides of the car...

There's been several theories on how and why these are caused; I've replicated an experiment done by another forum member using lotion on the effected area of the top and noted where it contacted when cycled. Both tests concluded the outter fabric was compressing against the edge of a frame rail, resulting in the marks.

I've had this issue since day 1 last Feb, I've had 3 top replacements and an open case with the Better Business Bureau.

Id been told by GM for weeks of a recall letter and "new" fix for this problem. Well; this week the letters leaked online along with the new TSB.

Before I had a chance to review the 16 page document, I was called by GM. Appearantly, this "fix" was already applied to my vehicle last year when the field tech came ton fix the wind noise issue. Obviously, the repair didn't work and the marks were still there.

This "new fix" is simply a step-by-step compilation of the previous "band aid" style fixes :

-ensure liner bolts in correct holes
-trim excess plastic from flipper bracket
-apply liner tape to frame
-pray it shuts the customer up...

Well, maybe imagining that last one...

Anyway; I'm now at a crossroads with GM; they've offered me a buy-back which will net me a loss of about $20k (mods, labor, etc) so I've got a meeting with the field tech Wednesday to see if we can try some other options to get a fix, and get the top replaced and warranty ironed out...

Irony of all this is; id been going through great lengths to protect my top (applying/removing) masking tape every time I cycled the top to protect the canvas) and since the BBB complaint, I stopped... well, now it appears the marks are fading away themselves...

I'm not insane, they were there (and photographed/documented) weeks after the last "fix", large indents with gray rub marks around them... they've now subsided to small dents, barely noticeable with no graying ... its almost kinda embarrassing; meeting with the rep after all this with not much to show.... (I do have another top issue that is specific to my car, so its not a total waste)

Moral of the (long winded) story;

There IS a new TSB (letters will be sent to those with open cases, those without; that have marks- contact your dealers!)

The TSB isn't earth shattering, but it MAY actually work- just need to give it some time to "settle in"... I think once things settled, the marks dissipated, and i should be able to work out a permanent fix Wednesday. Will keep you ball updated!

Last edited by drago77; 04-07-2012 at 12:23 PM.
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post #2 of 20 Old 04-07-2012, 02:00 PM
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i really dont want to ever bring it back to the dealer cuz with the limited help from factory to dealer they fixed my water leak,still have wear marks and now it creeks and rattles also wind noise like the windows open.now i have a rubbing noise when i take right hand turns. i shoulda bought an rv!at least i could live in and drive my bad investment!
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post #3 of 20 Old 04-07-2012, 03:16 PM Thread Starter
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i really dont want to ever bring it back to the dealer cuz with the limited help from factory to dealer they fixed my water leak,still have wear marks and now it creeks and rattles also wind noise like the windows open.now i have a rubbing noise when i take right hand turns. i shoulda bought an rv!at least i could live in and drive my bad investment!
Request a GM Field Tech comes to rework your top... there's cable adjustments to fix the noise (I've dealt with that as well)... and apply the new TSB...there's also something of for the turning nose as well, I don't recall the specifics, but a local vert owner was telling me about that.
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post #4 of 20 Old 04-15-2012, 08:00 PM Thread Starter
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Here's a lil' update... for whatever reason this topic isn't as "hot" here as it is elsewhere...

I took my car in to meet with a regional service rep and mY dealers service manager... after about 2 hours of inspection together and debate, it was concluded that the tsb had not been completely installed, and that the corrective idea I presented was actually viable and appeared successful (thanks Juan!)

The following day I was presented with 2 options:

A) have a replacement top installed (which was there, waiting for me) and all tsb's updated. And be happy and hopeful ...

Or...

Wait 4-6 weeks for a reworked frame/top design to clear production and have the entire top and frame replaced with the updated pieces.

So i pick my car up tomorrow; in limbo for a month or so....

Dim light at the end of the tunnel
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post #5 of 20 Old 04-15-2012, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drago77 View Post
Here's a lil' update... for whatever reason this topic isn't as "hot" here as it is elsewhere...
I'm listening, loud and clear, but have no info to add. You are the "go to" person for info on this. I have an appointment for the TSB's, but will be interested in the new fixes coming off the line. I still have the rubs and pinches that will probably not go away so a new top down the road with all the fixes would be my vote.

PLEASE keep posting here as its much easier to find new info without all the extra chatter. Thanks Drago77

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post #6 of 20 Old 04-17-2012, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drago77 View Post
The following day I was presented with 2 options:

A) have a replacement top installed (which was there, waiting for me) and all tsb's updated. And be happy and hopeful ...

Or...

Wait 4-6 weeks for a reworked frame/top design to clear production and have the entire top and frame replaced with the updated pieces.
I vote for option 2. Apparently it's a frame or bow issue or other mechanical thing, and not the fabric itself. Wait a month or so and get it fixed permanently. After all, it's been this long, and putting another band aid on it pretty much means it may not be right anyway. Really, what have you got to lose but a little more time?

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post #7 of 20 Old 04-18-2012, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
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Picked up my car Monday... service manager told me about 4-6 weeks to get a new assembly from the production line. After all this, I can DEFINITELY wait a bit more.

Not sure if i mentioned this already;

But another vert owner (who's been desperately trying to fix this since day 1) did a pretty comprehensive write up on the problem and what he (and i) believe to be a perminant fix.

Basically, the top fabric is rubbing the frame rail when retracted (proven and confirmed). There's a plastic "stopper" that contacts the rail and prevents the top from retracting any further when cycling down. Once it stops, the hydraulics build pressure and stop the top motor (hence the reason it runs a few seconds after it stops.) If you make the stopper longer, or build up the rail where it contacts, the top won't compress as tightly and alleviate some of the tension between the rail and fabric, depending on how much contact there is now, and how much you extend this stopper, the top may not touch at all. The OP used flashing tape to build up the rail, the GM reps were contemplating a shim or plate under the stopper bracket to raise it, or a redesign of the stopper itself (an adjustable stopper would be a miracle!) My concern was adding tension to the top by raising it (additional wind able to get inside by elevating the top) but they seemed to thinkbthat wouldn't be a problem as the top is secured hydraulically.

They took the print out I brought and said they'd contact R&D.

They also seemed open to the idea of allowing me to apply this "fix" myself and write a clause into the warranty if another fix did not work... that may still be an option.
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post #8 of 20 Old 04-18-2012, 12:25 PM
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post #9 of 20 Old 05-11-2012, 11:00 AM
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I've had my vert for a year now and I noticed the larger wear marks early on but recently noticed a small one above the pass. window had almost worn thru. Took it to the dealer to have them address this and the creaking(second time for this). Dealer had it for a few days and decided that it wasn't bad enough yet and that if it wore all the way thru the might put a new top on it. When I drove it off their lot the top started creaking immediately. I really don't want to push the issue on the wear spots until I have to, in the past I have found a extensive repair like this can leave you carless for some time and have your vehicle returned with scratches and dings that they will not admit to.
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post #10 of 20 Old 05-12-2012, 07:30 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckduck View Post
I've had my vert for a year now and I noticed the larger wear marks early on but recently noticed a small one above the pass. window had almost worn thru. Took it to the dealer to have them address this and the creaking(second time for this). Dealer had it for a few days and decided that it wasn't bad enough yet and that if it wore all the way thru the might put a new top on it. When I drove it off their lot the top started creaking immediately. I really don't want to push the issue on the wear spots until I have to, in the past I have found a extensive repair like this can leave you carless for some time and have your vehicle returned with scratches and dings that they will not admit to.
Best advise I can offer is to do some extensive research and find a dealer that's repaired these before. Your exactly right - I was all gung-ho to get my first replacement top installed, only to have it cause a dozen new issues. You definitely need a new top. But not only the top, they need to replace the mechanics of the top as well that cause the marks, otherwise it'll just happen again. Find the right service dept and you'll be fine, otherwise, you'll have a long road ahead of you
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