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post #1 of 10 Old 11-16-2013, 09:10 AM Thread Starter
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Understanding the causes of oil consumption in todays modern engines

Thought I would bring this back up as there is so much misinformation and misunderstanding when it comes to todays engines using excess amounts of oil. We would expect, like in the 70's when broken in properly (and NOT how the owners manual dictates) these would use no noticeable oil between changes, yet a good percentage do...as much as a qt every 1500-2000 miles:


The BEST Break for a new car. "very long"

“DISCLAIMER” Do not use the break in procedure below. Do not do hard acceleration runs and load your engine hard. You don't need this much power. I am not responsible for any damage, breakage or massive power increase caused by this crazy break in procedure. Just because every professional engine builder uses this procedure is no reason you should.


IMHO
The manual is written by people following “Corporate procedure” in order to mitigate the company’s exposure both legally and financially. If you don’t do what is outlined in there little manual they have ammo in court and for warranty if they so choose. It has almost nothing to do with how to properly break in an engine.
Some guy takes a new car out and turns the traction control off. He lays the coals to it like he has in his little import and WAMMO, he raps it around a telephone pole. Now what do you think the legal implications would be if the manual said to do 20 -30 hard acceleration runs and something like this happened. The manual has far less to do with break in and much more to do with legal exposure.

For over 25 years I, my family and every single person I am friends with, hang around with and work with build, test, tune, design and race for a living or sport. My brother and I have built some of the fastest engines in the world for just about every form of motor sports you care to name. Engines costing well over 100k-150k. I don’t say this to toot my horn but to give some measure of my background and experience. I do so because the statements I am making in this post will no doubt be controversial for those who have no experience with engine building, component design and high end research and development.

Ask 100 professional engine builders what break in procedure they use (no matter the form of motor sports) and I would venture that 100% would say LOAD them hard and change the oil often. It’s the ONLY way to properly break in an engine and anyone who says otherwise has not a clue what they are talking about. Why do you load the engine? The main reason is ring seal. From a metallurgical stand point both the rings and cylinder walls must “relax” and “conform” in order to properly mate and seal. If this is not done properly, quickly and in proper form the chances of a proper ring seal can be lost for ever. Your rings and cylinder wall wear could increase; the engine will use more oil and make less power. The worst the cylinder hone and free roundness of the ring are, the harder you better load the engine or you don’t have a chance in hell of getting the rings to seal. Some people are worried that they may break something. That may happen then again it may not. It may happen if you don’t use this break in procedure and then again it might not. For me, if its going to break its going to do it in the first thirty minutes of my taking position of the vehicle I assure you! I will find the weak link now, not later. The break in procedure here is the way ALL engines are being, and should be broke in.
When I say to make hard acceleration runs and load the engine I am not proposing you drop the clutch at 4200+rpm. The consequences of this could be a dropped drive shaft, input shaft, output shaft or the trans itself. Acceleration runs are not the same as drag racing the thing from stop light to stop light and acting like a 16 year old behind the wheel.. You must be in a rolling start and in the middle of low gear you floor the throttle and let the trans shift all the way to what ever speed you wish then let out of the throttle. DO NOT down shift, not ever, not even once during the course of these runs for at least 250-300miles. I put the car in neutral and release all loads after the run but that me. I don’t propose anyone doing this. Its dangerous and you could throw the thing into reverse if your not very careful. If you do not have professional driving experience, don’t do it. If you need more info go here

Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power



Here is what I do and what I am doing as well as the results from doing so.

Just drove mine off the lot. Has 21 miles on it. The dealer REFUSED to fill it with 93 octane. I told him that it was no big deal just leaves what fuel is in it from the factory and I will fill it at a station across the street.

I had about 25 miles on it when I laid into it with all it had and man oh man what a fricken pooch! It would not even begin to bark the rear tire from a dead stop/full throttle up to 30-35miles and even BOGGED the engine from a dead start.

I have kept doing hard acceleration runs then shift neutral when it hit 90mph. Its got 50miles on it and you can feel it coming around with each additional run. I let it cool down for a couple hours before I took it out again.

After the cool down I went back out. 50miles on the odometer and acceleration runs then shift neutral when it hit 90mph. She is starting to get a little life in her. You can feel the difference about ever five runs or so it gets a little more power.

At about 60miles of acceleration runs to 90mph. It will spin the tires up to second and the ass end will shimmy around a little now. I will let it cool down over night.

80miles on the odometer. Acceleration runs then shift neutral when it hit 90mph. . I can feel it pulling better and better after each acceleration run. Its finally started coming into some power and I mean right fricken NOW! It still feels a little sluggish on the shifts though.

135 miles on the odometer. Its really coming around now! It really wants to fry the tires all the way through low gear but wont quite do it. The traction control and stabiletrac are off but it won’t light them up and accelerate through low gear like a 400hp car should. I will let it cool down over night and lay into it in the morning and see how it goes. I have also noticed that the rear end is starting to squat when I accelerate from a dead launch. Good weight transition for the street but feels a little weird.



165miles on odometer and after overnight cool down. ITS ALIVE !!!! She will fry the tires anytime, anywhere all the way through first, shifts at 6200rpm and turns the tire some in second. Now this is what I wanted and hoped I would wake up to! It flat ass rips up the street all the way through the gears. I have driven a host of low 13, high 12 second cars on the street and this thing will do a low 13 second quarter right now, hands down, no question, no problem. I have driven a plethora of 10 second and 11 second cars as well so I have a good indication of where this stands. I was nothing short of shocked at the power increase. I should say that I was nothing short of shocked at the total lack of power for the first 50 miles or so. It didn’t have 250hp when I drove it off the lot and now, it’s a total animal!! I am loving this!

I now am driving it like I stole it and loving every single second. It’s unbelievable how the throttle response and acceleration has come around. It’s a whole new animal and what a mean little nasty animal it is. You hit the throttle and the power is right there, right now. When you hit the throttle it growls and barks, spins the tires and just hauls ass. I now have a perma-grin that a plastic surgeon could not hope to erase! This is, by far the neatest street car I have ever owned.


Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power
__________________
2010 Camaro SS/RS IOM, 475rwhp 415ft/lbs Cam-232°/245° .612 .612 113LSA. Precision 3500 stall, New Era CAI. Reher Morrison Heads, Manifold and TB. Ferrea H-stems, dual springs, Ti-retainers. American Racing long tubes-Xpipe, High flow CATs, "S"type Borla's. 160F Thermo.
VVT ACTIVE! Thanks to New Era Performance!


Darin Morgan
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Reher-Morrison Racing Engines
http://www.rehermorrison.com/rmSale3.htm
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post #2 of 10 Old 11-16-2013, 01:09 PM
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Great writeup, bro!

STICKY please!!

James 1:25 Ordered from Faulkner Chevy #NKCF02 1100 5/8/9 2000, 3300 7/16/9 TPW 7/20,GOT MY (low) VIN! 4000 7/24/9 ,Picked up 8/7/9!!! Signed Litho #45. Car signed by FBodfather 2011. Service: Jennings Chevy in PA. We don't "drift", kiddies... we POWER SLIDE! MOTM/COTM Sept 2012 Pro Patria Vigilans.
Click the pic.. I don't tolerate fools.
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post #3 of 10 Old 11-16-2013, 04:00 PM
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Ok so what car was it, Makes sense to me...

2013 LT2/RS, Crystal Red Metallic, TAZ Jr.
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post #4 of 10 Old 11-17-2013, 08:48 AM Thread Starter
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Most any car...this is with most any modern vehicle.

One of the most respected automotive performance engineers in the world, Darin Morgan wrote this one...
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post #5 of 10 Old 11-19-2013, 04:19 PM
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We have been in the habit of taking them to the drag strip ASAP


2010 Camaro RS SS LS3 (Bumble Bee) Vin#192 & 8 others made by GM and one Christine
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post #6 of 10 Old 11-20-2013, 07:55 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LorcinLS1 View Post
We have been in the habit of taking them to the drag strip ASAP
And that usually results in a better sealed engine and a little faster than one that's been babied when new. I am willing to bet your not using 1 qt of oil every 1000-2000 miles either. Probably little to none between changes.
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post #7 of 10 Old 06-28-2014, 08:56 AM Thread Starter
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Interesting independent test of catchcans. over 3 months, thousands of miles, and the guy documented every step in great detail:

I’ve had a UPR catch can on my 5.0 since last summer. It catches a lot, especially in the cold months. But I’ll get right to my test. I added an RX can inline after my UPR can to see if the UPR was missing anything. And if it was allowing some to pass through, was it enough for the RX to catch anything? I don’t drive a lot of miles regularly since my F150 is not a daily driver, so my results will take some time. This thread is to document how I set it up and what I catch over time.
I installed the RX can just as the directions explained, but I routed the hoses differently. I left my UPR can right where it’s been for months, but rerouted one hose. I left the hose from the passenger side of the engine to the inlet of the UPR can. Then a new hose from UPR can outlet, routed to the inlet of the RX can. The RX outlet hose goes back to the engine. The PCV exhaust now flows from the engine, through the UPR, then through the RX, and finally back up to the engine intake.
Before installing everything for the test, I cleaned the UPR can thoroughly. The bottom of the can (inside) was covered with a thin layer of stiff sludge that I could only clean out using gas. I’m glad that was caught, along with the ounces of oil, water, etc, over the months I’ve been emptying it. But I was surprised at the outlet hose from the UPR can. It was wet with oil. Obviously some was getting through the can and back to my intake. I’ve never let the can get close to half full before emptying it. Nearly every time I’ve emptied it, there was 1/4“ or less in the bottom. I’m noting this in case someone thinks I left the UPR get overfilled and it flowed through. Nevertheless, I started this test after cleaning everything for a fresh start.
I plan to leave this setup on for a thousand miles or so, and report my findings from each can.
1st picture: UPR*can as it was originally installed.
2nd:*CleanUPR can.
3rd: RX can installed. The hose in the top center of the can is the inlet. The outlet hose on the right has a check valve.
4th:*Engine outlet to UPR inlet on left of can. UPR outlet on right side of can routed around (smaller hose) to the RX inlet. You can also see the other smaller hose coming back up from the RX can and ending at the intake on the engine.



Report 2:



I thought I'd add a post to keep this thread alive since it is taking me awhile to get enough miles on the truck for valid results. Now that spring weather is finally arriving, I haven't been putting as many miles on it since I'm busy. But I have around 600 miles on the test set up so far. I emptied the cans recently and recorded the volumes to date. I'd like to wait until I get to 1000 miles before posting the results from the test, but I'll give some preliminary feedback.

- Emptying process -*
First the UPR. I'm used to emptying the UPR can regularly, so it's not a big deal to unscrew, guide the can out from between the hoses, pour it out, guide it back in between the hoses, get it lined up carefully (so I don't cross thread the soft aluminum) and screw it back up snug. All that takes less than a few minutes so it's rather easy.
Now the RX can. Raise the hood, hold an empty water bottle under the drain tube, open the valve, close the valve, close the hood. I kid you not, it takes no more time than it took to read those steps. I knew it would be easy to empty, but it is ridiculously easy.

_ The weather so far -*
During the first week of the test we had winter weather, with some snow. Since then we have had mild weather. Temperatures are in the 50's and 60's most days.

- What they caught so far -
I won't share the amounts yet, but I'll give some info. The UPR can has caught a 'mostly oil with a bit of water' mixture so far. The RX can (in line after the UPR) has had just the opposite. It's collected mostly water or fuel, with some oil mixed in.
I emptied the UPR first, and I would estimate it has collected the normal amount compared to what it usually does I empty it. I was pleased that my set up with 2 cans didn't seem to change the normal flow and collection I was used to seeing with just the UPR can. When I was about the turn the valve to empty the RX, I paused to a few seconds wondering if anything would come out. After all it was a new can that would need to get some oil/water coated on the inside before there would be enough to drip to the bottom (The UPR can had been in use for many months and although I cleaned the can I did not rinse off the filter material). Plus I wondered if the valve of the RX can protruded up into the can, and if it required some liquid to collect before there was enough to spill over that valve nipple and exit the can. Then I opened the valve and I had to smile when I had some liquid drain out. I thought all along that if it caught more than 10% of what the UPR was collecting, I would be surprised. It's still early in the test, and I would like to redo the test after reversing the order of the cans later, but I am surprised so far. I'm hoping to get more miles on the truck soon so I can wrap up this phase of the test.

Report 3:

1000 Miles of Testing Results

- The Weather*has been warmer lately. So the test began with sub freezing temperatures, and gradually increased through the 70's and topped off in the mid 80's yesterday. I couldn't have asked for a better range of temperatures for this test.

- What they caught*was astounding to me. UPR was first in line, with the RX after it to catch anything the UPR might miss.
The UPR stayed on track with what it has been accumulating for many months. Each time I emptied them, it had about the same amount. It's contents were mostly oil which smelled like used oil. It caught 17cc total which is just under 3 1/2 tsp.
The RX had more than the UPR each time I emptied them. It's contents were an oil/fuel/water type mix that had a much stronger odor. Not a fuel smell, but a sharper chemical smell compared to the odor of used oil. It caught a total of 67cc which is just over 13 1/2 tsp.

- Final totals:
UPR - 17cc
RX - 67cc

The RX can caught 4 times the amount the UPR can caught,*after*the UPR can removed what it could. I said from the beginning I would be surprised if the RX can could pull 10% of what the UPR caught, since it was second in line. If someone told me it would catch an equal amount I would have said BS. For it to catch 4 times what the UPR can caught is unreal.

Report 4:

The routing of cans has been reversed*so the second phase of the test is underway. I cleaned the cans and hoses so neither has an advantage. I also checked the inside of the hoses as I disassembled everything. The exit hose from the UPR was dripping with oil and it made a mess as I took it apart. The exit hose from the UPR was clean and dry. It still looked new. That is what prompted me to clean all the hoses before starting this phase. Is the double can routing helping the second can*that*much, or is one can that much better. Time will tell again.

Report 5:

And now back to our regularly scheduled programming…


Phase 2 is almost complete now, thanks to some extra mileage for work. I'll report on that soon and begin phase 3.


As I said above, UPR shipped parts for me to do phase 3 of the test. I bought my UPR can in June, and they changed the can slightly since then. The new diffuser/extension will only fit cans made after that, so they shipped a full new kit to test. Thank you UPR for helping with this, and for your input in this thread.*
After shipping the kit, [email protected] asked me to remove the mesh from the exit side of my existing can for the remainder of phase 2, and to remove the mesh from the exit side of the new can before starting phase 3. I removed it from both (phase 2 was half way done when I removed it from the existing can). When I was removing the mesh from the short side of the new can (in preparation for phase 3), I realized the diffuser was assembled backwards. For our 5.0 F150's the long side of the diffuser must be on the passenger side of the can when installed. I disassembled, removed the mesh packed up in the can top on the exit/passenger side, and reassembled the can with diffuser. For anyone who might have received their cans assembled by UPR, you should check to see if it was assembled correctly before installing. (EDIT: Joe notes below they assemble the cans for shipping, and all cans should be assembled for your own installation needs) I also had a small piece of the stainless steel mesh (1/8") drop out when I was doing that. I wasn't thrilled with that so I unrolled, and lightly tapped the mesh in case there were any other loose pieces, but there weren't. A quick note on the UPR kit... it is much improved since I bought mine. The hoses are pre cut to the proper lengths, the elbow fittings are nickel rather than plastic, and they include Ford OEM snap on valve cover and intake fittings.


More to come soon!

Report 6:

Test Results

-*I'll summarize*the test to date. The first phase was to test the UPR vs the RX catch cans on a 5.0, both base models, with the UPR first in line and RX installed to catch anything the UPR missed. Those first phase results were: UPR - 17cc, RX - 67cc. The 'first in line' UPR caught 20% of the total volume. See post 37 in this thread for more details. The cans were cleaned and reinstalled in reverse order for phase 2, RX first and then UPR.

Phase 2 Test Results
- The Weather*has been average northern Ohio spring weather. Some rain, fog, cool nights, warm and hot days.

-*Driving*has been about the same through both phases. I good mix of rural roads, some small towns, highways, and approximately 40% of the miles on interstates at 65 - 80mph. Mostly average style driving, with a few very heavy accelerations mixed in. A little heavy hauling, and no towing.

- What they caught*this time might have been predicted by some (after the results of phase 1). RX was first in line, with the UPR after it to catch anything the RX might miss.
The combined volume of gunk was half of that caught in the first phase. The first phase had some cold weather which accounted for more water in the mix and the higher volume.
The contents from the RX can was mostly oil/fuel, and had a strong chemical/solvent smell again. It caught 35.5cc total which is approximately 7 1/8 tsp.
The UPR can caught about the same mix of oil/fuel, but didn't smell quite as strong. Halfway through this phase, [email protected] asked me to remove the mesh on the exit side of the UPR can. I did that, but noticed no difference in what it was catching. But since it was second in line, and there was little to catch, that's understandable. The UPR can caught 1.75cc total which is approximately 1/3 tsp. With so little collecting this time, I monitored the contents of the UPR can but didn't empty it until the end of the test.

- Phase 2 Totals:
RX - 35.5cc
UPR - 1.75cc*

-*Other tidbits*include the 'first in line' RX can caught 95% of the total volume. The exit hoses were very clean from both cans. The last few tanks of gas have produced slightly higher than my normal MPGs, but it's too early to tell on that (more to follow after phase 3).

-Phase 3,*using the UPR can extension and diffuser, is underway. Details will follow.


Final Test Results

-*I'll summarize*the test phases. The first phase was to test the UPR vs the RX catch cans on a 5.0, both base models, with the UPR first in line and RX installed to catch anything the UPR missed. Those first phase results were: UPR - 17cc, RX - 67cc. The 'first in line' UPR caught 20% of the total volume. See post 37 in this thread for more details on phase 1. The cans were cleaned and reinstalled in reverse order for phase 2, RX first and then UPR. The second phase results were: RX - 35.50cc, UPR - 1.75cc. The 'first in line' RX caught 95% of the total volume. See post 143 for more details on phase 2.

Phase 3 Test Results

- This time the UPR can*was first in line as in phase 1, but it had the new can extension and diffuser added. It also had the mesh material removed from the exit side of the can.

- The Weather*has been average northern Ohio early summer weather. Some rain with warm and hot days.

-*Driving*has been a good mix of rural roads, some small towns, highways, and approximately 60% of the miles on interstates at 65 - 80mph. Mostly average style driving, some steep hill climbs, and some very heavy accelerations mixed in. A little heavy hauling again, and no towing. I'll add some more thoughts on driving and MPGs below.*

- What they caught*was a mixed bag. UPR was first in line, with the RX after it to catch anything the extended UPR might miss.
The combined volume of gunk was down from the last phase, again. I assume it is due to the warmer weather and maybe my engine is using less oil with more miles? Either way, my test looks at the percent each can catches, compared to the total caught for that phase, so the volume isn't critical.
The contents from the extended UPR can was mostly oil, and had a used oil smell. The UPR caught 14.75cc which is approximately 3 tsp.
The RX can caught a fuel/water/oil mix. It smelled much more harsh again. The RX can caught 16.00cc which is approximately 3 1/4 tsp.

- Phase 3 Totals:
UPR - 14.75cc (48%)
RX - 16.00cc (52%)

-*Other thoughts*on the results. The contents of each phase showed me the RX does a better job of removing more than oil. It always contained more water/fuel type liquids, while the UPR contained mostly oil. I don't know if it is due to the can design, the 'out front' mounting style of the RX, or both.
For anyone buying or thinking of upgrading their UPR can, I strongly recommend figuring out how to mount it out front, and would definitely add the valve that [email protected] is offering. I really think the 'out front' cooling effect will help it catch even more, and the valve would be worth the price for ease of emptying it. Having the RX can to compare to when emptying, the front mount and valve are no brainers.
As I said at the end of phase 2, my MPGs have increased slightly. I have done nothing different to my truck over the past year, other than adding the RX can to the UPR for this test. My driving style is very similar from tank to tank, I fill up at the same stations, etc. But since having both cans in series, and essentially removing 95% or more of the PCV byproducts, my MPGs have increased. Up to that point my lifetime MPGs were 17.5. Nearly every tank for the past year gave me the same results, 17.5. I would have some trips that would net 20 MPG, but the other short trips would always pull it back down for the same tank average - close to 17.5. My recent tank averages have all been over 18 MPG, with a few over 19, and as high as 19.5. My last tank included hauling approximately 1000 lbs of payload, through some long hills/mountains of PA, and I got 18.8 MPG. It could be the summer fuel mix combined with an engine that is broken in, but the timing is peculiar. Whatever the reason, I like it!


Thank you*Eco Tuner (Tuner Boost) and [email protected] for your support, feedback, and willingness to listen to open criticism and suggestions through this test. Looking back though this thread today, I realized how rare it is to get input and support from competing manufacturers, through a comparison test like this. We have all learned quite a bit, and have real data to help make decisions. Hats off to you both!
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post #8 of 10 Old 06-28-2014, 11:32 AM
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I didn't know the Camaro was available with a 5.0 engine?
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post #9 of 10 Old 06-28-2014, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Make It Rain View Post
I didn't know the Camaro was available with a 5.0 engine?
Technically, I don't think it said it was a Camaro (it never said it was) ... honestly, when I saw 5.0 I assumed Mustang and I also assumed the catch can test would work the same with any car, but man, that mustang blows a lot of oil

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post #10 of 10 Old 06-30-2014, 08:10 AM Thread Starter
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This is the way a detailed controlled test can be done with any can on any vehicle. Demonstrates just how little most cans will catch.
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