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post #1 of 19 Old 01-10-2008, 10:21 AM Thread Starter
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Question What about politics?

z28autobot brought up a comment in the other hilary post with a Ron Paul video that was pulled from Larry king.

Are we not allowed to talk politics here, or was that just said to be taken out of that thread and keep on topic?

Because honestly, not enough people know what is going on, and its sickening and scary.

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post #2 of 19 Old 01-10-2008, 10:32 AM
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I'm for the most Conservative candidate. While I like Paul's constitutionalism, his Iraq policy is naive (what are the consequences of a blanket withdrawal, Ron?) and his insistence on going back to the Gold Standard is simply bewildering. His understanding of the nature of the terrorist threat is also only about half right.

He has a disproportionate number of conspiracy nuts supporting him. On substance alone, I agree most with Fred Thompson on the issues. Unfortunately he's not a very good campaigner.





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post #3 of 19 Old 01-10-2008, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
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If you think that his wanting to go back to the gold standard is bewildering, then maybe you should check out some of the facts surrounding the value of our dollar, or lack thereof.

You know that the government is just producing billions and billions of dollars that is not backed by gold, or even the banks right? Billions and billions of dollars are printed with nothing to back it.

Don't believe it? Go back and track the value of our dollar vs the Euro, just to get an idea of the effect. Maybe the housing bubble and amount of foreclosures might be of interest to you. Maybe the knowledge of the social security disappearing by the time you and I need it would be of interest. I don't even want to talk about the debts we've sold off to China.

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post #4 of 19 Old 01-10-2008, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast***** View Post
z28autobot brought up a comment in the other hilary post with a Ron Paul video that was pulled from Larry king.

Are we not allowed to talk politics here, or was that just said to be taken out of that thread and keep on topic?

Because honestly, not enough people know what is going on, and its sickening and scary.
IMO political threads usually end up closed on any forum I frequent. Some people just don't know when to shut up unfortunatly.

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post #5 of 19 Old 01-10-2008, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
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As long as people don't start throwing out personal attacks, it should be ok imho.

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post #6 of 19 Old 01-10-2008, 11:14 AM
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Political discussions are fine here for the time being.
But they will be monitored closely, and threads will be locked quickly if they get testy.
And if the subject material overall gets out of hand, we'll disallow those discussions altogether.

So far cool heads have prevailed, so for now, I'm ok with it.

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post #7 of 19 Old 01-10-2008, 11:20 AM
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Nothing to back the dollar? How about consumer confidence?

The reason we went off the gold standard was it was outdated. Frankly there's not enough gold out there to equal all the dollars, so what do we do then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard

Quote:
The gold standard is not currently used by any government or central bank, having been replaced completely by fiat currency.
Quote:
The term “fiat” money is also often used to distinguish it from money that is pegged or fixed to a quantity or mass of precious metal. These are referred to as representative money, or any currency with legal force requiring the bank of issue to pay in fixed weights of a given precious metal or (in theory) fixed amount of any other precious good. Unlike representative money, paper money has no inherent value, instead deriving value as a medium for exchange when traded for goods or services or to pay debts.
So he's advocating we go back to an antiquated system which no one else uses anymore. Markets determine the value of the dollar now. I learned about the Gold Standard and why we dropped in in high school 15 years ago. Do they not teach this stuff anymore?





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post #8 of 19 Old 01-10-2008, 11:27 AM Thread Starter
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The dollar needs to be backed by SOMEthing. You can't just print up a bunch of paper that says 'one dollar us tender' on it, and expect the economy to be just fine.

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post #9 of 19 Old 01-10-2008, 11:54 AM
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But that's how EVERYbody does it. Euro? Not backed by anything. Yen? Not backed by anything.

He's preying on your ignorance on the topic. And I'm not saying your stupid, but that you don't have an understanding of how the current system works. He says "the dollar isn't backed by anything! Its worthless"! And you say "yeah, he's right, that makes no sense" When in reality it is much more complex than that.

Seems to me we've gotten along just fine that last 35 years since quitting the Gold standard. Leaving the gold standard is not a magic pill that ruined our economy. I'd argue that since we left the gold standard we've had some pretty good runs on the economy. Anybody want to go back to 1972 economic conditions? Cut govt spending, get taxes down on corporations and individuals, and cut excessive regulation and you'd fix everything that's wrong.

The thing hurting the value of the dollar isn't the lack of backing, but the fact we're borrowing so heavily.

[QUOTE][You can't just print up a bunch of paper that says 'one dollar us tender' on it, and expect the economy to be just fine./QUOTE] I agree. So its probably a pretty good thing that's not how things are done here. Its called Monetary Policy, and the value of money is managed by controlling the supply of money (how much you print, plus how expensive it is to borrow money (interest rate).

Monetary Policy:
Quote:
Monetary policy is the process by which the government, central bank, or monetary authority manages the supply of money, or trading in foreign exchange markets.[1] Monetary theory provides insight into how to craft optimal monetary policy.
Again, Ron Paul is taking advantage of the fact that w/o a knowledge of economics and in particular monetary policy, the common sense answer is that its a bad idea to just "print money w/o a backing resource".

Heck, all gold is is another form of money. Its value is set by the market too. What happens if we go back on the Gold standard and the value of gold drops like a brick? Does that mean the dollar drops too?

Like I said, I agree with Ron on a lot re: going back to the Constitution and his tax/spending positions. But his foreign policy is naive and this Gold standard thing is just silly.

Bottom line is I can't vote for him because I cannot trust we won't be in more danger from the terrorists if he's elected, because he clearly doesn't understand the nature of the threat. Even if he were elected I don't think there's a legitimate chance of going back to the GOld Standard. Its just like Huckabee's fair tax. National sales tax and no IRS? Sounds great but it is never going to get through congress, period.






Last edited by Chris 96 WS6; 01-10-2008 at 11:56 AM.
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post #10 of 19 Old 01-10-2008, 01:22 PM
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Good writeup Chris! I agree with alot of what Ron Paul says too. He just seems too much like a dreamer to me. Sure it would be great if many of his ideas were to work out as he intends but many of them are just not feasible or prudent. What scares me the most about Ron Paul is all the cooks that follow him.

Me personally I would prefer Rudy then Fred. I'm not a social conservative so his (Rudy) policies don't bother me (not that any candidate will honestly do something on one of the hot topics anyway). I like their stance on things such as terrorism, and fiscal policies.

I would prefer Barack over Hillary, I can't fully express how much I loathe her, but honestly reguardless of how people feel the country is going now I don't see either of them with a chance in the White House.

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