Livernois Motorsports New Stage 2C High Lift Camshaft - ModernCamaro.com - 5th Generation Camaro Enthusiasts
V8 Engine Discussion 6.2L LS3/L99 V8 | Exhaust | Ignition | Induction | Intakes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 13 Old 12-19-2011, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Dearborn Heights, MI
Posts: 243
 
Livernois Motorsports New Stage 2C High Lift Camshaft

We are constantly developing and testing new camshafts and recently decided to grind a high lift version of one of our best selling camshafts.

To date, we've tested the cam in 2 vehicles and they both made within a few HP of the other (a 15-20 RWHP gain over the normal 2C).

Specs are: 224/236 .646/.646 117 LSA

This cam has a noticeable lopey idle, but retains excellent drivability. It can be found on our site here

It can be heard in the video below:


The vehicle in the video above had the following mods:

Livernois Motorsports CNC Cylinder Heads
Livernois Motorsports L92 Stage 2C High Lift Camshaft
Livernois Motorsports Dual Valve Spring Kit
Livernois Motorsports Ported Intake & Throttle Body
Kooks 1 7/8 Longtube Headers
Kooks Catted Connection Pipe
Corsa Exhaust
Rotofab Cold Air Intake
Tuned by Livernois Motorsports

Baseline numbers with a CAI only were 386 RWHP / 385 RWTQ. After these mods, it made 482 RWHP / 444 RWTQ.



Thank you

Regards,

Rick LeBlanc
Livernois Motorsports
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 Old 12-27-2011, 01:34 PM
Junior Member
 
DZ28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Milford, MI
Posts: 40
 
what do you figure the heads are worth? I have that decision to make.... stock heads for now or spend some $$ on better heads...

IBM 2SS/RS M6 with sunroof, MGW shifter, Corsa, GM accessory MTX subwoofer, ARE Torque Thrust M from Nickey Chicago, LSR Performance CAI, Eibach coilovers, Pfadt sways, Kooks 1-7/8's headers, Vector 2.5 Cam package and tune, JL Audio XD400/4 amp mod...
DZ28 is offline  
post #3 of 13 Old 01-02-2012, 06:00 PM
Member
 
BubbaHD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: St Louis Mo
Posts: 115
 
my goodness that's a lot of lift. I have been looking at your 2c I think is called.

I have been looking at your packages to install a cam with the L99 change over. I dont need the headers or the cai and there was a few other things I didnt need. Are your prices negotiable?
BubbaHD is offline  
 
post #4 of 13 Old 01-06-2012, 08:42 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Dearborn Heights, MI
Posts: 243
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DZ28 View Post
what do you figure the heads are worth? I have that decision to make.... stock heads for now or spend some $$ on better heads...
Heads are probably worth 20-25

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaHD View Post
my goodness that's a lot of lift. I have been looking at your 2c I think is called.

I have been looking at your packages to install a cam with the L99 change over. I dont need the headers or the cai and there was a few other things I didnt need. Are your prices negotiable?
We can tailor a package to fit your needs. Please contact Andy, our shop supervisor at 313-561-5500 or email [email protected]

Thank you,

Rick
post #5 of 13 Old 01-06-2012, 09:07 AM
Member
 
BubbaHD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: St Louis Mo
Posts: 115
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Heads are probably worth 20-25



We can tailor a package to fit your needs. Please contact Andy, our shop supervisor at 313-561-5500 or email [email protected]

Thank you,

Rick
That's what I wanted to hear.

You guys are in the top 2 shops I'm considering for a cam DOD delete, and since I'm from Michigan and still have family there you will probably get the job.

A couple of quick questions. Have you installed the 3:91 gears in any L99's? If so did they like them?

Next question is about Titanium valves. How much to add them and are they worth it. I have heard they wear faster but I don't really believe it.

Would it be an insult if I wanted to have you install the Lingenfelter LS9 heads for the LS3 motor

Twice forever banned from C5 club and working on a 3rd
No Hope
Ratt
BubbaHD is offline  
post #6 of 13 Old 01-06-2012, 12:34 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 27
 
While we definitely have installed gears in the L99, we never recommend anything deeper than a 3.45 for a daily driver. At the most we would use a 3.73. The reason for this is first gear. Simply put, it's so deep, anything more than those gear ratios will be a complete waste and will have you shifting into second gear far too soon. Also, traction would be severely limited in this scenario as well.

The reliability, and fun factor with the 3.45 I feel is the perfect match for this camshaft. You want to take into consideration it's broad power band, and keep the engine in the mid range a little longer.

Now for the heads. An LS9 head is not compatible on an LS3 block due to the head bolt diameter difference. Also, an LS9 head flows less (even when ported) then our ported LS3 head. Not by a whole lot, but definitely enough to make it a step backwards for NA performance. In addition to this, the valvetrain weight is a non-issue when the proper valvetrain upgrades (aka springs) are used.

I definitely think our stage 2 ported ls3 head will be the best option for this package. If you would like a lighter valvetrain, we could upgrade you to a hollow stem LS3 valve, but a titanium valve would be a waste in my opinion.
post #7 of 13 Old 01-06-2012, 12:57 PM
Member
 
BubbaHD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: St Louis Mo
Posts: 115
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
While we definitely have installed gears in the L99, we never recommend anything deeper than a 3.45 for a daily driver. At the most we would use a 3.73. The reason for this is first gear. Simply put, it's so deep, anything more than those gear ratios will be a complete waste and will have you shifting into second gear far too soon. Also, traction would be severely limited in this scenario as well.

The reliability, and fun factor with the 3.45 I feel is the perfect match for this camshaft. You want to take into consideration it's broad power band, and keep the engine in the mid range a little longer.

Now for the heads. An LS9 head is not compatible on an LS3 block due to the head bolt diameter difference. Also, an LS9 head flows less (even when ported) then our ported LS3 head. Not by a whole lot, but definitely enough to make it a step backwards for NA performance. In addition to this, the valvetrain weight is a non-issue when the proper valvetrain upgrades (aka springs) are used.

I definitely think our stage 2 ported ls3 head will be the best option for this package. If you would like a lighter valvetrain, we could upgrade you to a hollow stem LS3 valve, but a titanium valve would be a waste in my opinion.
I knew the 4:11's were too much and was set on the 3:73's till the 3:91's came out, but I was thinking 3:91 would be a little too much. I just would like to hear from someone who has them.

The LS9 heads I was referring to are made to fit the LS3 block as a direct replacement by Lingenfelter. I plan on installing a blower some day and just want to set the car up for it.

I like your cam and I'm sure there is something we can work out with the heads.

I love your shop.

Twice forever banned from C5 club and working on a 3rd
No Hope
Ratt
BubbaHD is offline  
post #8 of 13 Old 01-07-2012, 03:43 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 27
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaHD View Post
I knew the 4:11's were too much and was set on the 3:73's till the 3:91's came out, but I was thinking 3:91 would be a little too much. I just would like to hear from someone who has them.

The LS9 heads I was referring to are made to fit the LS3 block as a direct replacement by Lingenfelter. I plan on installing a blower some day and just want to set the car up for it.

I like your cam and I'm sure there is something we can work out with the heads.

I love your shop.
Thank you for the kind words.

As for the heads. I personally would forgo the production based ls9 head if you were concerned about deck thickness, and the titanium/sodium combination. In place of this, I would run our stage 2 LSX-LS9 head, which features an even thicker deck surface than the production LSA/LS9 head, while flowing slightly better than the cnc'd LSA/LS9 head, while utlizing all the hard parts from the LS9 head. By the time you did those heads, and added the upgraded springs needed (the comp 26918 springs, or any other beehive spring, will not be adequate), you would be the same cost.

My main concern is it appears that they are either relying on the cylinder head dowels to locate the cylinder head and just using the smaller bolt in the larger hole to clamp it down. Or the other possibility, is they are actually LSA heads, and they just put LS9 hard parts in them. Both have their own issues, as the LS9 head, while it is the same casting number as the LSA, has different intake seats to accommodate the titanium valve, where the LSA's valve seat is set up for the standard stainless valve. This would hurt long term durability.
post #9 of 13 Old 01-08-2012, 12:57 AM
Member
 
BubbaHD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: St Louis Mo
Posts: 115
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Thank you for the kind words.

As for the heads. I personally would forgo the production based ls9 head if you were concerned about deck thickness, and the titanium/sodium combination. In place of this, I would run our stage 2 LSX-LS9 head, which features an even thicker deck surface than the production LSA/LS9 head, while flowing slightly better than the cnc'd LSA/LS9 head, while utlizing all the hard parts from the LS9 head. By the time you did those heads, and added the upgraded springs needed (the comp 26918 springs, or any other beehive spring, will not be adequate), you would be the same cost.

My main concern is it appears that they are either relying on the cylinder head dowels to locate the cylinder head and just using the smaller bolt in the larger hole to clamp it down. Or the other possibility, is they are actually LSA heads, and they just put LS9 hard parts in them. Both have their own issues, as the LS9 head, while it is the same casting number as the LSA, has different intake seats to accommodate the titanium valve, where the LSA's valve seat is set up for the standard stainless valve. This would hurt long term durability.
This is not something I'm creating. Its a CNC machined head from Lingenfelter and it bolts on like a LS3 head. It even fits the intake manifold.

I'm not married to the idea. I'm looking for a head and cam combo, something that matches. I don't care about Dyno numbers I want speed. Low track times.

I like the higher heat line and RPM numbers with Titanium but I'm not married to that idea either. I always keep an open mind. I would rather see track time before and after improvements than Dyno HP

Twice forever banned from C5 club and working on a 3rd
No Hope
Ratt
BubbaHD is offline  
post #10 of 13 Old 01-08-2012, 06:45 AM
Member
 
BubbaHD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: St Louis Mo
Posts: 115
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
While we definitely have installed gears in the L99, we never recommend anything deeper than a 3.45 for a daily driver. At the most we would use a 3.73. The reason for this is first gear. Simply put, it's so deep, anything more than those gear ratios will be a complete waste and will have you shifting into second gear far too soon. Also, traction would be severely limited in this scenario as well.

The reliability, and fun factor with the 3.45 I feel is the perfect match for this camshaft. You want to take into consideration it's broad power band, and keep the engine in the mid range a little longer.

Now for the heads. An LS9 head is not compatible on an LS3 block due to the head bolt diameter difference. Also, an LS9 head flows less (even when ported) then our ported LS3 head. Not by a whole lot, but definitely enough to make it a step backwards for NA performance. In addition to this, the valvetrain weight is a non-issue when the proper valvetrain upgrades (aka springs) are used.

I definitely think our stage 2 ported ls3 head will be the best option for this package. If you would like a lighter valvetrain, we could upgrade you to a hollow stem LS3 valve, but a titanium valve would be a waste in my opinion.
I've been on another more technical site and I'm leaning towards keeping LS3 heads now. What kind of flow rate do you have? Can you port mine? How much for the valve upgrade?

Twice forever banned from C5 club and working on a 3rd
No Hope
Ratt
BubbaHD is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the ModernCamaro.com - 5th Generation Camaro Enthusiasts forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome