89 RS restore and possible mods

13905 Views 53 Replies 12 Participants Last post by 89RS, Jun 14, 2010

89RS

Discussion Starter · Jul 6, 2008 (Edited)

89 RS Restore & Mod

In the next year, I won't be using my 89 RS as a daily driver. Hopefully I'll have a new 5th gen Camaro by then or some other new car. However, I refuse to trade in or get rid of the thing, so instead I've planned to mod my car.

As far as mods go, I'm looking to mod the following areas:

Chassis
Suspension
Drivetrain
Brakes
Engine

My car is an 89 RS with a TBI 305 engine (LO3) and a automatic transmission (700r4). The attached Excel spreadsheet is the current list of parts I have and it will be updated as I make changes to it.

Starting with the chassis, I just want to stiffen it up and make it last longer. I am going to be using UMI SFC's since it provides the best support for the rear LCA mounts and is the least intrusive to the underside of the chassis. I will be getting a Spohn LSx K-member to accept the LS3 E-Rod engine.

Current suspension is front strut and rear shock and I am sticking with that style of setup, just making it a great all around performer.

The drivetrain will be all new: Dana S60 rear end with Truetrac and a rebuilt 700R4 using the Mega Monster rebuild kit.

I am converting to 4 wheel vented disc brakes. Wilwood offers the best kits to date that I can find. I'll be using the Wilwood FDL Front & Rear kits. Both kits have 4-piston calipers and the rear kit features the parking brake integrated into the rotor hat. I'll be getting the rear kit from Spohn at the same time I get the S60 rear, so its just plug & play.

Thankfully, after two years of waiting, I've found the perfect engine: the LS3 E-Rod. Its 50-state emission legal, turn key, and has everything needed for an LSx swap.

Any and all help is appreciated. I'm not going to be doing anything to my car soon, other than taking care of the body and minor repairs. However, I'd like to get a solid plan laid down before I go restoring my car.

See less See more

41 - 54 of 54 Posts

89RS

Discussion Starter · #41 · Aug 18, 2009

firechicken said:
Why not go with an ls7? what are you going to run for a rear and trans?

A friend of mine made a very good point about it costing another $10k to dress out the LS7 crate engine. Ignition system, wiring harness, ECU, accessory drive, & headers, not to mention the Corvette transmission and required mods to fit it in a 3rdgen.

If I swapped in the Motown 427 SBC, I'd use the Richmond 6-Speed and a Spohn/Moser 12-bolt like I'm planning on doing. That would be the best benefit of using the Motown 427 SBC, it would work with anything that would fit a 350 SBC 3rdgen.

So, this would be the list for a 427 SBC swap:

427 SBC Roller Cam, Aluminum Heads:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WRL-110210/

MSD Ignition Box:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MSD-6420/

K&N Open Element:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/KNN-60-1280/

Flex-a-Lite Radiator:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLX-56484/

Hooker Super Comp Headers:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HOK-2210-1HKR/

Pair of 3" Cats:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DTC-79-400300/

Pair of 3" Mufflers:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLO-943045/

Set of Tips:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-35172/

This would cost about $5k more than a built 334, but there is no way I can't consider it because it just brings so much to the table in terms of aftermarket support.

See less See more

firechicken

· #42 · Aug 18, 2009

Good point, but I don't think it would cost 10k more.

Here is what I would do.
Acessories, ecu from a 4th gen fbody, an fbody or gto t56 with ls7 clutch. Harness can be adapted by using a speartech adapter. Trans will handle over 500rwhp, headers are about 900, harness adapter is about 800, trans is about 1500, clutch about 500. I think it could be done, but your way is very good to, I guess I just prefer power and economy.

89RS said:
A friend of mine made a very good point about it costing another $10k to dress out the LS7 crate engine. Ignition system, wiring harness, ECU, accessory drive, & headers, not to mention the Corvette transmission and required mods to fit it in a 3rdgen.

If I swapped in the Motown 427 SBC, I'd use the Richmond 6-Speed and a Spohn/Moser 12-bolt like I'm planning on doing. That would be the best benefit of using the Motown 427 SBC, it would work with anything that would fit a 350 SBC 3rdgen.

So, this would be the list for a 427 SBC swap:

427 SBC Roller Cam, Aluminum Heads:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WRL-110210/

MSD Ignition Box:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MSD-6420/

K&N Open Element:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/KNN-60-1280/

Flex-a-Lite Radiator:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLX-56484/

Hooker Super Comp Headers:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HOK-2210-1HKR/

Pair of 3" Cats:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DTC-79-400300/

Pair of 3" Mufflers:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLO-943045/

Set of Tips:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-35172/

This would cost about $5k more than a built 334, but there is no way I can't consider it because it just brings so much to the table in terms of aftermarket support.

89RS

Discussion Starter · #43 · Aug 18, 2009

firechicken said:
I guess I just prefer power and economy.

Whats not powerful about 550hp and 575ft/lbs tq

I'll give you the economy part, hands down nothing beats the LS engines in that department. I could improve it somewhat with a HSR or Massflo EFI system, but at almost $4k for that, I think the carb that comes with the 427 is a good deal. The EFI would perform better in AX, and thats why I'm going with the Richmond 6-Speed, really close gear ratio's for AX with a good overdrive for highway cruise.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RMG-7051626ED/

89RS

Discussion Starter · #44 · Oct 8, 2009

*UPDATE*

Well, I had some unforseen expenses come up for college, so those planned mods will have to wait till I can afford to do them. Hopefully that is sometime next summer.

But, if there is bad news there is good as well, I finally started to get my project cost to go down instead of up. In fact, I'm about $3k under where I was in the planning stage this time last year and the parts selection is 10 times better than it was this time last year.

Alot of this has to do with having just read Dave Vizards SBC on a Budget book. It allowed me to get the cost of building my 305 (now aiming for a 310) down to almost $11k and thats including the nuts, bolts & gaskets. I've just about decided to do away with TBI and not because it can't be made to make power, but because at my HP goals it'd pretty much take $2k to build a TBI system for 400hp and at that point TBI is almost maxed out. Whereas a Holley 4150HP 750cfm carb is just getting started at 400hp. This way, I have a dirt simple to work on induction system.

I think I'm going to turndown a 427 because I want the cost of my project plus tooling to be preferably under $37k. Unless I run into major rust on my car, I should be able to take car of the rust my self without need of new metal parts. I'm pretty sure I can also fab up my own SFC's & STB, but I'll need to do a little more reading to be sure.

And I finally figured out how to get "accurate" results out of Desktop Dyno. The 310 with the Holley, dual plane manifold, and Trickflow heads puts out 395fwhp and 375fwtq. I looked at building my own 427 and it came out to 537fwhp and 490fwtq. Not bad, but at $3200 more than a 310, its alittle too far out for what I want to do.

I hate college because I can't work on my car right now, but at the same time I love it because I get to avoid buyers remorse.

See less See more

firechicken

· #45 · Oct 8, 2009

desktop dyno :lol:

89RS said:
*UPDATE*

Well, I had some unforseen expenses come up for college, so those planned mods will have to wait till I can afford to do them. Hopefully that is sometime next summer.

But, if there is bad news there is good as well, I finally started to get my project cost to go down instead of up. In fact, I'm about $3k under where I was in the planning stage this time last year and the parts selection is 10 times better than it was this time last year.

Alot of this has to do with having just read Dave Vizards SBC on a Budget book. It allowed me to get the cost of building my 305 (now aiming for a 310) down to almost $11k and thats including the nuts, bolts & gaskets. I've just about decided to do away with TBI and not because it can't be made to make power, but because at my HP goals it'd pretty much take $2k to build a TBI system for 400hp and at that point TBI is almost maxed out. Whereas a Holley 4150HP 750cfm carb is just getting started at 400hp. This way, I have a dirt simple to work on induction system.

I think I'm going to turndown a 427 because I want the cost of my project plus tooling to be preferably under $37k. Unless I run into major rust on my car, I should be able to take car of the rust my self without need of new metal parts. I'm pretty sure I can also fab up my own SFC's & STB, but I'll need to do a little more reading to be sure.

And I finally figured out how to get "accurate" results out of Desktop Dyno. The 310 with the Holley, dual plane manifold, and Trickflow heads puts out 395fwhp and 375fwtq. I looked at building my own 427 and it came out to 537fwhp and 490fwtq. Not bad, but at $3200 more than a 310, its alittle too far out for what I want to do.

I hate college because I can't work on my car right now, but at the same time I love it because I get to avoid buyers remorse.

89RS

Discussion Starter · #46 · Oct 8, 2009

firechicken said:
desktop dyno :lol:

Hey, for what its worth its a useful tool. I don't expect to see those numbers in the real world, but it gives a good idea of what you can do.

When I graduate, I'll buy the Dynomation software suite. It's about $750 for an all out dyno and virtual test track to test and tune all sorts of crap.

89RS

Discussion Starter · #47 · Jun 9, 2010

*Threadnecromancer*

After reading through this thread, I'm glad I've not gone out and bought things for my car as I read about them. Thank God that discretion is the better part of valor or I'd be in buyers remorse after what I've learned over the last year.

After trying to figure out a way to make it cost effective to work on the 305, I've just given up. I can't make it as powerful as I would like and for the money I could have a turnkey ZZ4 350 and be significantly into an LS3 E-Rod. After figuring this out, I decided to look into other engines and came to a fork in the road. For $7k I can get a turnkey ZZ4 and everything needed to get it running. Or for $9500, I can get a turnkey, emission legal, LS3 E-rod and never have to worry about upgrading ever again. I just recently learned that a 700R4 would bolt to an LS engine with only the need for a flexplate and adapter for LS engines to bolt to older transmissions.

After much drivetrain research, I found out that I could buy a rebuild kit for my 700R4 and make it beefy enough for anything I could think of, however; I can't say the same for the 10-bolt rear. Apparently, on a Gen I SBC, a built 10-bolt is good to about 450hp, but when a stock LS1 is in the mix, the built 10-bolt is living on borrowed time. With that in mind, I went looking for the cheapest strongest rear possible and found the Dana S60 rear at Spohn.

I don't know why I never thought of this earlier, but for some reason I've been a Baer fanboy and that blinded me to the fact that Wilwood actually offered **** near the same thing for half the cost. Four piston caliper breaks on each corner, integrated parking brake into the rear rotor hat, and savings of 35lbs per corner (according to Wilwood) for half of what Baer is asking.

My crazy thoughts for the interior are done for. Nothing like a pair of Corbeau seats and 4-point harnesses to make things safer. Also, no more super fancy tech like hydraulic brake boosters and custom one off steering boxes. Also, I'll be trying to rebuild and reuse as many things as I can like the stock A-arms.

I've truly slashed the cost of my planned restore. Right now, its $19250 for the entire list of mods and a ZZ4 engine. The LS3 with the list of mods is $23500.

As it stands, I'm torn between the LS3 and the ZZ4. The ZZ4 is cheaper, but its not emissions legal, and its a carb which could prove problematic during autocross. The LS3 is more expensive, but its emissions legal and wouldn't have any fueling problems for autocross.

Any input is appreciated. As always, the OP has been updated. And yes I realize this thread is quite old.

See less See more

80s_Adam

· #48 · Jun 9, 2010

LS3 all the way.

firechicken

· #49 · Jun 12, 2010

How much rwhp does an ls3 put out? 380? If your running an auto, a well built 10 bolt should be fine. Autos don't put nearly as much shock to the rear end than a manual transmission, unless of coarse your running a huge stall.

89RS

Discussion Starter · #50 · Jun 12, 2010

firechicken said:
How much rwhp does an ls3 put out? 380? If your running an auto, a well built 10 bolt should be fine. Autos don't put nearly as much shock to the rear end than a manual transmission, unless of coarse your running a huge stall.

Thats what I thought too, but several people on TGO had already tried that with stock LS1's and it failed miserably. Why, I have no clue. But for the money, a Dana S60 rear is the cheapest and strongest of the aftermarket rears, and its a direct bolt in rear. I was already looking at $1500ish for parts for a built 10-bolt, so why not save myself some time, spend abit more, and just go ahead and swap the rears. That way, I don't spend money twice when the 10-bolt goes.

firechicken

· #51 · Jun 12, 2010

89RS said:
Thats what I thought too, but several people on TGO had already tried that with stock LS1's and it failed miserably. Why, I have no clue. But for the money, a Dana S60 rear is the cheapest and strongest of the aftermarket rears, and its a direct bolt in rear. I was already looking at $1500ish for parts for a built 10-bolt, so why not save myself some time, spend abit more, and just go ahead and swap the rears. That way, I don't spend money twice when the 10-bolt goes.

My ls1 and t56 were on a 10 bolt with a powertrax locker and 3.73's and it held up fine for 20k until I pulled it out and sold it, I put the 9" in there so I wouldnt blow the 10 bolt up after I supercharge the ls1, figured it would be worth more as a complete unit than in pieces.

89RS

Discussion Starter · #52 · Jun 13, 2010 (Edited)

firechicken said:
My ls1 and t56 were on a 10 bolt with a powertrax locker and 3.73's and it held up fine for 20k until I pulled it out and sold it, I put the 9" in there so I wouldnt blow the 10 bolt up after I supercharge the ls1, figured it would be worth more as a complete unit than in pieces.

I'll keep that in mind. While I plan on keeping either engine stock, I am thinking that sometime down the road that I will be putting an upgrade/power adder on either engine. Hence why I'm leaning toward just going ahead and spending a little extra now on a Dana S60 rather than building the 10-bolt then buying a Dana S60.

54inches

· #53 · Jun 13, 2010

You need ATLEAST 3.42s for ANY type of autoX or strip.

That's what most later models had stock.

I hope you hear something soon!

89RS

Discussion Starter · #54 · Jun 14, 2010

My plans for the 10-bolt were 3.23's, mainly to split economy and performance, but the Dana will have 3.54's in it.

I hope I hear something soon too!

41 - 54 of 54 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.