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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have heard before ( I dont know if its true ) that Gm , Ford and Dodge all as american automakers have an idea or atleast a clue on what each other have/put in there vehicles.

In recent years Gm has proven to be one of the Top if not "THE TOP" performance automaker when it has come down to its Camaro and it's Corvette.

In a few weeks or maybe even less Mustang will release there new car and possibly give some information on there New powerplant that is supposed to be pushing 400hp and possibly more.
Do yall think Gm will stand behind its history and Top mustang when it comes to Hp ?

Weight is going to play a factor from what I have read however I hope thats not the case and that Gm stands tall once again. I know with mpg and etc its hard to pump out those high reving hp motors that we like. Something has stuck in my head since 2003 I remember a car and driver where Ford put there Charged Stang up against our Last Generation Camaro ( the last meeting and comparrison ) And that irked the hell out of me because out of all the times we went up against Ford and there Stang they had to put an all motor Camaro up against a Charged Stang.....couldnt they have used there Gt like they have in the past ? Noooooooo I know we have chosen to take a different route as in using natrual aspurated motors but when it came down to showing how they can beat us IMO it was the chicken way out. I cant find the mag off hand but the last line said something about Camaro being dead and long live a legend !!!!!!!!!!

There has been so much said that Gm is late out of the gate with our Camaro and what if GM is behind in performance.....nothing more do I want but GM to prove something with this car.

It just makes me wonder......how will our car rank to the mustang ?

I guess we will have to wait a few more weeks for details
 

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Discussion Starter #3
as long as mustang keeps useing a solid rearend its never really gonna be much of a contender

meaning not move forward with an IRS ? I know a lot of people who dont like the IRS.....but I guess its all about what you want in a car lol
 

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Discussion Starter #5
True !!!!!! I just know so many more who love there solid rear axles. I dont have a pref but then I have never owned a IRS.......Yet :D
 

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True !!!!!! I just know so many more who love there solid rear axles. I dont have a pref but then I have never owned a IRS.......Yet :D
true but you've got to commend ford and chevy for building some bulletproof rear ends in their history
 

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Discussion Starter #8
true but you've got to commend ford and chevy for building some bulletproof rear ends in their history
True the 12bolt and 9inch were BIG for there time and still are for gearheads who love to race ! and lets not forget the Dana !




I haven't had the pleasure of IRS either, even the oldsmobile had a live rear axle.
The s-10's ride can **** near knock out tooth fillings though. :/

No kidding....maybe thats why they are getting more airbagged suspensions with larger diameter wheels and tires as we speak lol IMO they look better that way as well.
 

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IRS for a daily driven 'hotrod' is the best! With the right halfshafts, it's an unbeatable package for comfort and performance.
 

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The big three have always had more than a clue what the others are doing.

Just one example, GM had a program called Mona Lisa. They were across the street from the GM Tech Center in Warren. They would disassemble a competitor car nut for nut, bolt for bolt and analyze the thing from top to bottom :D
 

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I like my IRS and Independent Fronts with multi-link. and AWD. Putting power to all 4 wheels.. woot.
 

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Solid puts more power to the ground when going straight. IRS helps keep the wheels planted in the turns. That said, there are plenty of SRA cars still racing and winning in NASA and SCCA - even third gen F-bodys and Fox Bodys.

I like the IRS in my GTO since I drive it everyday. I prefer the setup of my 4th gens for racing.

Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords is the magainze you are referring to. I have it at home and even wrote a letter to MM&FF about it (which was published). They tested an 02 35thLE SS against a Sonic Blue Cobra. I have no problem that they did that. Basically, they took the best cars that GM and Ford made for those generations and pitted them against eachother. Who care if one is supercharged and the other one isn't. At the end of the day, it's "run what 'cha brung". Ford made the most powerful car at the end of the day - period.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Everyone I know will say go solid rear axle if you are racing someone in a straight line as in drag racing. However if you are a track junkie you you love autocross then IRS is the only way to go.
I know someone who took there IRS out of there cobra for the Solid rear axle to be put in.
 

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I have no problem that they did that. Basically, they took the best cars that GM and Ford made for those generations and pitted them against eachother. Who care if one is supercharged and the other one isn't. At the end of the day, it's "run what 'cha brung". Ford made the most powerful car at the end of the day - period.
I agree.

It's like the CTS-V (supercharged V8) vs M5 (V10) vs E63 AMG(V8)
 

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I know someone who took there IRS out of there cobra for the Solid rear axle to be put in.
Most high-hp Cobra guys swap the IRS out for a SRA. GT guys will swap their 8.8's out for the IRS then. Common practice.

I agree.

It's like the CTS-V (supercharged V8) vs M5 (V10) vs E63 AMG(V8)
The E63 is also supercharged (or Kompressor as they call it). C63 is N/A. I love MB's. It's tough being surrounded by expensive German cars like that here in DC. I try to keep my GM loyaty, but dang, those AMG's are nice.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Solid puts more power to the ground when going straight. IRS helps keep the wheels planted in the turns. That said, there are plenty of SRA cars still racing and winning in NASA and SCCA - even third gen F-bodys and Fox Bodys.

I like the IRS in my GTO since I drive it everyday. I prefer the setup of my 4th gens for racing.

Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords is the magainze you are referring to. I have it at home and even wrote a letter to MM&FF about it (which was published). They tested an 02 35thLE SS against a Sonic Blue Cobra. I have no problem that they did that. Basically, they took the best cars that GM and Ford made for those generations and pitted them against eachother. Who care if one is supercharged and the other one isn't. At the end of the day, it's "run what 'cha brung". Ford made the most powerful car at the end of the day - period.


The First comment you said I agree 100% and still feel the same way you do until proven otherwise on which is better. Who knows we will see.

I didnt know the article I was talking about happened to be in a mustang mag as well.... I know for a fact it was in a performance mag that was not pro towards either one. It was just showing the normal stang vs Camaro war.

However I have always been different when it came towards power adders like Superchargers and Nitrous I have always called that the easy way out.
I respect GM for all that they do with there engines , from day 1 it has been pushrods , Cam's and pistons All motor !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! when Gm puts an all motor vehicle and whips someone's A$$ with it then Engineers can sit back and say our work is done and it was done RIGHT ! GM and Ford have always had the war between there two pony cars and they have nearly always been motor on motor.
In the past few years Ford can't rely on there motor to do much of anything when it comes to performance without using some type of power adder except for when they had the much respectable 5.0Liter.
If you cant take a motor and work over the heads , Cam and block throw in some transmission work and then finish off with the rearend and suspension and have a decent Vehicle then you in my opinion need to start over.
Ford yes won fare and sqaure they brought something and won however after all of the years of going on all motor they decided to test there Charged Stang ( cobra to be exact ) against our All motor Camaro. In my opinion if thats how they want it lets get GMMG or someone envolved and put one of there cars to the test.
Come on you got a 5.4liter with a supercharger of course you are going to win but thats not what you would normally bring like in years past. I guess they just got tired of being thrown around so they brought a proven vehicle with something that could actually put some power into one of there motors.
Dont tell me ford cant build an all motor car !!!!! they did it in the past and people do it all the time however they dont want to spend the time and make something that complicated when they can throw on a power adder and smile like they did something.

I am a GM guy but if you want to get technical if mopar in the past had only made there cars where the weight wasnt so high im sure they would whip all of our A$$es with there high hp elephant motors. But just like today lets build something HEAVY as hell with a bunch of Hp and end up coming short most of the time.

I like motor on motor...I like to show people gm knew what they were doing when they built that motor.

My 69 has the factory 396/350 horse motor, when you step into that car and feel the power it puts to the pavement you truely respect what a car in factory condition almost 40 years ago gives you. Its expected from a supercharged car.

I guess its all about opinion.

im just curious if we did this today Camaro vs mustang what would they bring the Gt500 ? If thats the case then I wanna know why they need to bring an automobile that shelby created and not bring the mighty glued together "GT" as we know it lol.

oh thats right we had 300hp in the late 90's they are still behind....maybe this new stang will be a car that has something to show us.
 

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I agree of the preference of an all-motor car. I sure do like those Cobras, though.

Nonetheless, we technically should only be comparing Camaros to Mustangs through 2002. In that case, the Camaro wooped butt. During the fuel injected years, it was only 86-92 that the Mustang with its 5.0 HO that could give a Camaro a run for its money. Other wise, it was all GM.

Still, you have to give it to Ford for giving their fans a monster motor, regardless of the way it's making power. They took a reliable modular motor and added a blower. It's a great combination.

As Sluuug mentions, the CTS-V is supercharged. Let us not turn a blind eye to the new ZR1 either. Even Chevys sport compact has a blower strapped to it. Don't forget the Duramax...
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Oh dont get my wrong you're so correct out of all Fords the Cobra imo looks the best also !!!!!!!!!!!!!! They look mean 03/04 models in the rearview mirror when they are coming up from behind you.
 

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Most high-hp Cobra guys swap the IRS out for a SRA. GT guys will swap their 8.8's out for the IRS then. Common practice.



The E63 is also supercharged (or Kompressor as they call it). C63 is N/A. I love MB's. It's tough being surrounded by expensive German cars like that here in DC. I try to keep my GM loyaty, but dang, those AMG's are nice.
well you're wrong Mercedes benz E63'S are Naturally Aspirated,previous gen E55 are supercharged.and they can make some crazy power,renntech makes a upgrade to nearly 600hp!!.it's insanely expensive($24,000 roughly) but i feel ford's true monster motor is Ford's FE 460 motors(429 Super Cobra Jet).demon i also want to thank you for reitterating what i've been trying to convey all along(i'm not a troll) that even though Ford motors have always been small in displacement compared to Mopar and General Motors Ford has always been able to give them a run for their money.Just because you're big doesn't make you immune to what may be percieved as a "small threat".hell why do you think some of these imports with tiny motors embarrass some american muscle cars?;)
 
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