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Discussion Starter #1
We are constantly developing and testing new camshafts and recently decided to grind a high lift version of one of our best selling camshafts.

To date, we've tested the cam in 2 vehicles and they both made within a few HP of the other (a 15-20 RWHP gain over the normal 2C).

Specs are: 224/236 .646/.646 117 LSA

This cam has a noticeable lopey idle, but retains excellent drivability. It can be found on our site here

It can be heard in the video below:


The vehicle in the video above had the following mods:

Livernois Motorsports CNC Cylinder Heads
Livernois Motorsports L92 Stage 2C High Lift Camshaft
Livernois Motorsports Dual Valve Spring Kit
Livernois Motorsports Ported Intake & Throttle Body
Kooks 1 7/8” Longtube Headers
Kooks Catted Connection Pipe
Corsa Exhaust
Rotofab Cold Air Intake
Tuned by Livernois Motorsports

Baseline numbers with a CAI only were 386 RWHP / 385 RWTQ. After these mods, it made 482 RWHP / 444 RWTQ.



Thank you

Regards,

Rick LeBlanc
Livernois Motorsports
 

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what do you figure the heads are worth? I have that decision to make.... stock heads for now or spend some $$ on better heads...
 

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my goodness that's a lot of lift. I have been looking at your 2c I think is called.

I have been looking at your packages to install a cam with the L99 change over. I dont need the headers or the cai and there was a few other things I didnt need. Are your prices negotiable?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
what do you figure the heads are worth? I have that decision to make.... stock heads for now or spend some $$ on better heads...
Heads are probably worth 20-25

my goodness that's a lot of lift. I have been looking at your 2c I think is called.

I have been looking at your packages to install a cam with the L99 change over. I dont need the headers or the cai and there was a few other things I didnt need. Are your prices negotiable?
We can tailor a package to fit your needs. Please contact Andy, our shop supervisor at 313-561-5500 or email [email protected]

Thank you,

Rick
 

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Heads are probably worth 20-25



We can tailor a package to fit your needs. Please contact Andy, our shop supervisor at 313-561-5500 or email [email protected]

Thank you,

Rick
That's what I wanted to hear.

You guys are in the top 2 shops I'm considering for a cam DOD delete, and since I'm from Michigan and still have family there you will probably get the job.

A couple of quick questions. Have you installed the 3:91 gears in any L99's? If so did they like them?

Next question is about Titanium valves. How much to add them and are they worth it. I have heard they wear faster but I don't really believe it.

Would it be an insult if I wanted to have you install the Lingenfelter LS9 heads for the LS3 motor
 

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While we definitely have installed gears in the L99, we never recommend anything deeper than a 3.45 for a daily driver. At the most we would use a 3.73. The reason for this is first gear. Simply put, it's so deep, anything more than those gear ratios will be a complete waste and will have you shifting into second gear far too soon. Also, traction would be severely limited in this scenario as well.

The reliability, and fun factor with the 3.45 I feel is the perfect match for this camshaft. You want to take into consideration it's broad power band, and keep the engine in the mid range a little longer.

Now for the heads. An LS9 head is not compatible on an LS3 block due to the head bolt diameter difference. Also, an LS9 head flows less (even when ported) then our ported LS3 head. Not by a whole lot, but definitely enough to make it a step backwards for NA performance. In addition to this, the valvetrain weight is a non-issue when the proper valvetrain upgrades (aka springs) are used.

I definitely think our stage 2 ported ls3 head will be the best option for this package. If you would like a lighter valvetrain, we could upgrade you to a hollow stem LS3 valve, but a titanium valve would be a waste in my opinion.
 

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While we definitely have installed gears in the L99, we never recommend anything deeper than a 3.45 for a daily driver. At the most we would use a 3.73. The reason for this is first gear. Simply put, it's so deep, anything more than those gear ratios will be a complete waste and will have you shifting into second gear far too soon. Also, traction would be severely limited in this scenario as well.

The reliability, and fun factor with the 3.45 I feel is the perfect match for this camshaft. You want to take into consideration it's broad power band, and keep the engine in the mid range a little longer.

Now for the heads. An LS9 head is not compatible on an LS3 block due to the head bolt diameter difference. Also, an LS9 head flows less (even when ported) then our ported LS3 head. Not by a whole lot, but definitely enough to make it a step backwards for NA performance. In addition to this, the valvetrain weight is a non-issue when the proper valvetrain upgrades (aka springs) are used.

I definitely think our stage 2 ported ls3 head will be the best option for this package. If you would like a lighter valvetrain, we could upgrade you to a hollow stem LS3 valve, but a titanium valve would be a waste in my opinion.
I knew the 4:11's were too much and was set on the 3:73's till the 3:91's came out, but I was thinking 3:91 would be a little too much. I just would like to hear from someone who has them.

The LS9 heads I was referring to are made to fit the LS3 block as a direct replacement by Lingenfelter. I plan on installing a blower some day and just want to set the car up for it.

I like your cam and I'm sure there is something we can work out with the heads.

I love your shop.
 

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I knew the 4:11's were too much and was set on the 3:73's till the 3:91's came out, but I was thinking 3:91 would be a little too much. I just would like to hear from someone who has them.

The LS9 heads I was referring to are made to fit the LS3 block as a direct replacement by Lingenfelter. I plan on installing a blower some day and just want to set the car up for it.

I like your cam and I'm sure there is something we can work out with the heads.

I love your shop.
Thank you for the kind words.

As for the heads. I personally would forgo the production based ls9 head if you were concerned about deck thickness, and the titanium/sodium combination. In place of this, I would run our stage 2 LSX-LS9 head, which features an even thicker deck surface than the production LSA/LS9 head, while flowing slightly better than the cnc'd LSA/LS9 head, while utlizing all the hard parts from the LS9 head. By the time you did those heads, and added the upgraded springs needed (the comp 26918 springs, or any other beehive spring, will not be adequate), you would be the same cost.

My main concern is it appears that they are either relying on the cylinder head dowels to locate the cylinder head and just using the smaller bolt in the larger hole to clamp it down. Or the other possibility, is they are actually LSA heads, and they just put LS9 hard parts in them. Both have their own issues, as the LS9 head, while it is the same casting number as the LSA, has different intake seats to accommodate the titanium valve, where the LSA's valve seat is set up for the standard stainless valve. This would hurt long term durability.
 

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Thank you for the kind words.

As for the heads. I personally would forgo the production based ls9 head if you were concerned about deck thickness, and the titanium/sodium combination. In place of this, I would run our stage 2 LSX-LS9 head, which features an even thicker deck surface than the production LSA/LS9 head, while flowing slightly better than the cnc'd LSA/LS9 head, while utlizing all the hard parts from the LS9 head. By the time you did those heads, and added the upgraded springs needed (the comp 26918 springs, or any other beehive spring, will not be adequate), you would be the same cost.

My main concern is it appears that they are either relying on the cylinder head dowels to locate the cylinder head and just using the smaller bolt in the larger hole to clamp it down. Or the other possibility, is they are actually LSA heads, and they just put LS9 hard parts in them. Both have their own issues, as the LS9 head, while it is the same casting number as the LSA, has different intake seats to accommodate the titanium valve, where the LSA's valve seat is set up for the standard stainless valve. This would hurt long term durability.
This is not something I'm creating. Its a CNC machined head from Lingenfelter and it bolts on like a LS3 head. It even fits the intake manifold.

I'm not married to the idea. I'm looking for a head and cam combo, something that matches. I don't care about Dyno numbers I want speed. Low track times.

I like the higher heat line and RPM numbers with Titanium but I'm not married to that idea either. I always keep an open mind. I would rather see track time before and after improvements than Dyno HP
 

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While we definitely have installed gears in the L99, we never recommend anything deeper than a 3.45 for a daily driver. At the most we would use a 3.73. The reason for this is first gear. Simply put, it's so deep, anything more than those gear ratios will be a complete waste and will have you shifting into second gear far too soon. Also, traction would be severely limited in this scenario as well.

The reliability, and fun factor with the 3.45 I feel is the perfect match for this camshaft. You want to take into consideration it's broad power band, and keep the engine in the mid range a little longer.

Now for the heads. An LS9 head is not compatible on an LS3 block due to the head bolt diameter difference. Also, an LS9 head flows less (even when ported) then our ported LS3 head. Not by a whole lot, but definitely enough to make it a step backwards for NA performance. In addition to this, the valvetrain weight is a non-issue when the proper valvetrain upgrades (aka springs) are used.

I definitely think our stage 2 ported ls3 head will be the best option for this package. If you would like a lighter valvetrain, we could upgrade you to a hollow stem LS3 valve, but a titanium valve would be a waste in my opinion.
I've been on another more technical site and I'm leaning towards keeping LS3 heads now. What kind of flow rate do you have? Can you port mine? How much for the valve upgrade?
 

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This is not something I'm creating. Its a CNC machined head from Lingenfelter and it bolts on like a LS3 head. It even fits the intake manifold.

I'm not married to the idea. I'm looking for a head and cam combo, something that matches. I don't care about Dyno numbers I want speed. Low track times.

I like the higher heat line and RPM numbers with Titanium but I'm not married to that idea either. I always keep an open mind. I would rather see track time before and after improvements than Dyno HP
What I am trying to convey on Lingenfelter's heads is they are misleading on it. You could TECHNICALLY use an LS9 head on an LS3, but that would make all of the load be handled by the dowels, the only way to correct this would be a special head fastener that tapered to the larger bolt size above the block. Similar to what Ford guys have been doing for years by putting a set of 351 Windsor heads on a 302 engine. The more likely explanation is they are LSA heads with LS9 hard parts, but with LSA valve seats which will not be good for durability, just the same as putting the LS9 hardware in LS3 heads. The valve seats are not designed for titanium. This is where the LSX-LS9 head would be better. It's an LS3 based port, with LS9 hard parts, and the appropriate seats.
 

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What I am trying to convey on Lingenfelter's heads is they are misleading on it. You could TECHNICALLY use an LS9 head on an LS3, but that would make all of the load be handled by the dowels, the only way to correct this would be a special head fastener that tapered to the larger bolt size above the block. Similar to what Ford guys have been doing for years by putting a set of 351 Windsor heads on a 302 engine. The more likely explanation is they are LSA heads with LS9 hard parts, but with LSA valve seats which will not be good for durability, just the same as putting the LS9 hardware in LS3 heads. The valve seats are not designed for titanium. This is where the LSX-LS9 head would be better. It's an LS3 based port, with LS9 hard parts, and the appropriate seats.
I hear what your saying but I'm over the LS9 and Titanium thing.

Livernois porting my heads is a definite thing that will happen. I have been on more technical sites and you guys are always regarded as the best or one of the best at porting heads.

The rest of your work has the same reputation.

What do you think about the VVT system? To keep it if adding a blower and not needing so much cam?
 

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We always get rid of the VVT system for long term durability purposes. One thing many people don't know, or don't pay attention to is the VVT system is controlled by oil pressure. Over time, this system will fail due to the reduction of oil pressure in concert with higher pressure valve springs.

The VVt system can theoretically make more power than a non-vvt system, but only when working to it's full potential. since the travel is limited compared to production, and the cams are not optimized for this feature, they do not take full advantage of the system. Making a non-vvt camshaft able to outperform a vvt style.
 
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