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McCain has a point as the UAW (or any union, imho) is goign to run these guys into the groud...
 

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What if they do and it ends up starting a wave of layoffs and bankruptcies, maybe leading to a depression? From what I've been reading thats what they're afraid of. I'd like to see all those on Wall Street and in Washington brought to justice. They don't even try to hide the corruption anymore, its like the Soprano's on sterioids. From what I've read, they can't stop the banks from collapsing and its just a matter of time before they nationalize them. So while they're working out the politics, they're throwing our tax dollars down a black hole. AIG has gotten 170 Billion tax dollars, and they hardly ever mention that in the MSM. IMO GM failure is more a result of this bubble economy the banks created than UAW. I just want my Camaro before the whole thing falls.
 

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I agree that this is all a product of what the banks started. However, even if GM does go bankrupt, good things will happen. Ford and Chrysler would also in that case go under most likely, and All three would simply restructure and come back as a stronger company. I would love to see all three pull out of this, but even if they don't, you won't just not be able to get your camaro. GM is already rid of Saturn, Saab, and Hummer. They have already spent the money on the plant for camaro production, so whether they claim bankruptcy or not, they will still have the car. Either way, the sky can't fall too much...
 

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What if they do and it ends up starting a wave of layoffs and bankruptcies, maybe leading to a depression? From what I've been reading thats what they're afraid of. I'd like to see all those on Wall Street and in Washington brought to justice. They don't even try to hide the corruption anymore, its like the Soprano's on sterioids. From what I've read, they can't stop the banks from collapsing and its just a matter of time before they nationalize them. So while they're working out the politics, they're throwing our tax dollars down a black hole. AIG has gotten 170 Billion tax dollars, and they hardly ever mention that in the MSM. IMO GM failure is more a result of this bubble economy the banks created than UAW. I just want my Camaro before the whole thing falls.
This is already going on with or without GM filing chapter 11. Suppliers are closing their doors in the Detroit area left and right, has been going on for a year or so already.

The Camaro is the least of GM's worries.
 

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Supporter of common sense
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I agree that this is all a product of what the banks started. However, even if GM does go bankrupt, good things will happen. Ford and Chrysler would also in that case go under most likely, and All three would simply restructure and come back as a stronger company. I would love to see all three pull out of this, but even if they don't, you won't just not be able to get your camaro. GM is already rid of Saturn, Saab, and Hummer. They have already spent the money on the plant for camaro production, so whether they claim bankruptcy or not, they will still have the car. Either way, the sky can't fall too much...
GMs situation has little to do with the banks.
GM has had management and other issues for many years, this is the end result of their own internal issues as well as the economy outside of the corporation.

Regarding the banks, don't forget to share the blame on the majority of Americans living on credit, buying crap they had no business buying, things they could not afford, going after ARM and balloon mortage notes. Quite a bit of stupidity got us where we are today.
 

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IMO GM is already getting all the negitive effects of bankruptcy without any of the positive effects. IMO bankruptcy would only make things better for them.
 

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GMs situation has little to do with the banks.
GM has had management and other issues for many years, this is the end result of their own internal issues as well as the economy outside of the corporation.

Regarding the banks, don't forget to share the blame on the majority of Americans living on credit, buying crap they had no business buying, things they could not afford, going after ARM and balloon mortage notes. Quite a bit of stupidity got us where we are today.
I agree that the people that were buying crap that couldn't afford is where a lot of the blame should be laid. But "some" of the banks were willing to accept these loans when they knew good and well that the people were not able to afford them. They just accepted them, put maybe 50 different loans in a package and sold them off. This is where I see that the banks are a little to blame for GM's situation. With the mistake of accepting bad loans, the economy has changed substantially. People lose jobs due to the economy, have no money to spend on a new vehicle, and it hurts the auto companies.
However, I definately agree that this is not the only problem. GM has it's own issues that helped lead to this situation. Chapter 11 will hopefully get rid of those issues and we'll see a stonger company soon. ;)
 

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I agree that the people that were buying crap that couldn't afford is where a lot of the blame should be laid. But "some" of the banks were willing to accept these loans when they knew good and well that the people were not able to afford them. They just accepted them, put maybe 50 different loans in a package and sold them off. This is where I see that the banks are a little to blame for GM's situation. With the mistake of accepting bad loans, the economy has changed substantially. People lose jobs due to the economy, have no money to spend on a new vehicle, and it hurts the auto companies. However, I definately agree that this is not the only problem. GM has it's own issues that helped lead to this situation. Chapter 11 will hopefully get rid of those issues and we'll see a stonger company soon. ;)
That is the other part of this cyclical problem, very few people in this country can REALLY afford to buy a NEW car. It is one of the quickest items that depreciate and is a very poor financial decision for most Americans.

On the other side, if fewer people bought new cars, car companies would be in worse shape, it is a lose lose situation for Americans overall...
 

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SS-Eric
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[QUOTERegarding the banks, don't forget to share the blame on the majority of Americans living on credit, buying crap they had no business buying, things they could not afford, going after ARM and balloon mortage notes. Quite a bit of stupidity got us where we are today.[/QUOTE]

Let's remember one thing... the banks did not want to make the loans, our Government... ie the Great Bill Clinton, Barney Frank, and others forced Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac and others to losen their lending practices.
 

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Let's remember one thing... the banks did not want to make the loans, our Government... ie the Great Bill Clinton, Barney Frank, and others forced Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac and others to losen their lending practices.
Citizens, federal gov't, banks, they all share this IMO.
 

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SS-Eric
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Citizens, federal gov't, banks, they all share this IMO.
You are right there, no one forces people to buy more than they can afford, so the rest of us just get to bail them out. Last time I checked 94% of homes were still being paid on time and that is still the majority. So where's my government help???? When did welfare start buying houses?:angry:
 

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You are right there, no one forces people to buy more than they can afford, so the rest of us just get to bail them out. Last time I checked 94% of homes were still being paid on time and that is still the majority. So where's my government help???? When did welfare start buying houses?:angry:
You make too much money, therefore you are an evil American who likes to work his tail off and get rewarded for it. But don't tell them that, they will tax you even more than you already are.

I made $7000 last year and actually OWED IN $4 and OWED the gov't $36. All because when I quit Walmart they gave me the $400 they had been putting into my 401k for the 2.5 years I worked there.

This gov't and its policies are ****ing bull**** and everyone knows it!
 

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Eliminating 28 Billion in debt and giving the UAW the finger along with the other measures they have in place seems to be a good thing to get the ball moving.
 

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What if they do and it ends up starting a wave of layoffs and bankruptcies, maybe leading to a depression? From what I've been reading thats what they're afraid of. I'd like to see all those on Wall Street and in Washington brought to justice. They don't even try to hide the corruption anymore, its like the Soprano's on sterioids. From what I've read, they can't stop the banks from collapsing and its just a matter of time before they nationalize them. So while they're working out the politics, they're throwing our tax dollars down a black hole. AIG has gotten 170 Billion tax dollars, and they hardly ever mention that in the MSM. IMO GM failure is more a result of this bubble economy the banks created than UAW. I just want my Camaro before the whole thing falls.
Well then it will be. We NEED to hit bottom so we can rebound instead of drawing out the inevitable with these hollow plans of stimuli.
 
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