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Supporter of common sense
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Discussion Starter #1
Last night I watched the reply on CSPAN of the automaker buyout discussuion. Rick Wagoner really blew it in front of the panel. The panel made some VERY good points against the automakers.

Rick did not provide direct replies to the financial questions, taking a GM private jet there and asking for a handout, not willing to take a pay cut more than 50%, come on GM, you have to do better than this.

I've been on the fence about this bailout 'bridge loan' all along, I'm starting to fall towards the side to turn it down.

When do these 'loans' stop? Each town in America has their bread and butter industry, do we bail all of them out?

This sucks all around.
 

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Last night I watched the reply on CSPAN of the automaker buyout discussuion. Rick Wagoner really blew it in front of the panel. The panel made some VERY good points against the automakers.

Rick did not provide direct replies to the financial questions, taking a GM private jet there and asking for a handout, not willing to take a pay cut more than 50%, come on GM, you have to do better than this.

I've been on the fence about this bailout 'bridge loan' all along, I'm starting to fall towards the side to turn it down.

When do these 'loans' stop? Each town in American has their bread and butter industry, do we bail all of them out?

This sucks all around.
Agreed
 

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Supporter of common sense
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Discussion Starter #3
I can't believe the GM senior staff is still even taking a salary - it is BS at it's best. Lee Iaccoca was the man :cool:

I voted against every elected official who voted in favor of the financial bailout in our area in November and I will do the same if this one goes through. Companies/businesses need to own up.

Both of my parents are lifetime GM employees and are still in jeapordy of losing their jobs very soon if the bailout goes through or not. I saw some stupid Ford worker on the news last night, she is foolish enough to think if this bailout goes through she will not lose her job. Wake up people... These companies need to clean house and change things big time. That is the only way out of this.
 

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ModernCamaro.com Founder / Former Camaro Disciple
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Personally I think if GM, Ford and Chrysler should get bailout money.

Executive salary isn't the issue to look at, but Entire Compensation is.
They can take a salary of $1 and still make millions (options, bonuses, etc).

In exchange for a bailout, I think part of the deal should be making the entire upper-level management team of each company either agree to an entire compensation package of $1 or be removed from their position.
That way you have people working to fix the problem because they CARE ABOUT IT and WANT TO, not just to make a paycheck.

Additionally, another part of the deal should be to completely replace the boards of directors of the three companies.

That would be a **** good fresh start if you ask me.
 

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I HATE the politics involved in this situation. Congress is focusing on Exec salaries and benefits which have absolutely NOTHING to do with the issue at hand. Compaired to the overall spending of each of these companies, the exec salary and the cost to fly the jet to DC (provided by the company and REQUIRED to be used for insurance reasons), is nothing. Are these men supposed to put on a show and act like paupers for the media? That's ridiculous.

Bottom line, they bailed out AIG, and IMO AIG had the most fraudalent practices I've ever seen. Why can't they bailout struggling automakers? Do they realize what's at stake? Why aren't they focusing on important issues? They should be asking for how the automakers plan to spend/invest the bailout money, not complaining because they make more money than them.
 

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I HATE the politics involved in this situation. Congress is focusing on Exec salaries and benefits which have absolutely NOTHING to do with the issue at hand. Compaired to the overall spending of each of these companies, the exec salary and the cost to fly the jet to DC (provided by the company and REQUIRED to be used for insurance reasons), is nothing. Are these men supposed to put on a show and act like paupers for the media? That's ridiculous.

Bottom line, they bailed out AIG, and IMO AIG had the most fraudalent practices I've ever seen. Why can't they bailout struggling automakers? Do they realize what's at stake? Why aren't they focusing on important issues? They should be asking for how the automakers plan to spend/invest the bailout money, not complaining because they make more money than them.

^^^ I agree 1000%...it's effin BS.
 

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Are these men supposed to put on a show and act like paupers for the media? That's ridiculous.

No, it's not ridiculous at all. Since when is flying first class humiliating? Were they worried they would be assaulted? This just shows the level of hubris. It's embarrassing.
I agree with the gentleman that started this thread. Sometimes appearances are important, and without question this was a collossal PR blunder.
 

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No, it's not ridiculous at all. Since when is flying first class humiliating? Were they worried they would be assaulted? This just shows the level of hubris. It's embarrassing.
I agree with the gentleman that started this thread. Sometimes appearances are important, and without question this was a collossal PR blunder.
Did you read the part about the use of the Private Jet being MANDATORY for these execs? If they flew commercial they would be breaking their contract with their respective companies. That's right, they're REQUIRED to fly on the provided private jet per their CONTRACT. There was no choice to be made. Congress isn't stupid (well...maybe they are), but they KNEW that.
 

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I HATE the politics involved in this situation. Congress is focusing on Exec salaries and benefits which have absolutely NOTHING to do with the issue at hand. Compaired to the overall spending of each of these companies, the exec salary and the cost to fly the jet to DC (provided by the company and REQUIRED to be used for insurance reasons), is nothing. Are these men supposed to put on a show and act like paupers for the media? That's ridiculous.

Bottom line, they bailed out AIG, and IMO AIG had the most fraudalent practices I've ever seen. Why can't they bailout struggling automakers? Do they realize what's at stake? Why aren't they focusing on important issues? They should be asking for how the automakers plan to spend/invest the bailout money, not complaining because they make more money than them.
:werd:
 

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Supporter of common sense
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Discussion Starter #12
Did you read the part about the use of the Private Jet being MANDATORY for these execs? If they flew commercial they would be breaking their contract with their respective companies. That's right, they're REQUIRED to fly on the provided private jet per their CONTRACT. There was no choice to be made. Congress isn't stupid (well...maybe they are), but they KNEW that.
First I've heard that angle, where can I read more about this?
 

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Supporter of common sense
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Discussion Starter #15
Interesting, thanks for the link.
Maybe if they are flying for company business? Strange policy.

GM CEO Rick Wagoner and Ford CEO Alan Mulally are required by their companies to fly by private aircraft for security reasons, according to company documents filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.
Good job Nardelli :cool:

"I think I'm OK where I am," Mulally said when asked if he was willing to cut his own salary. Mulally earned more than $22 million in 2007, according to a Ford regulatory filing earlier this year.

Wagoner said he has voluntarily reduced his salary by 50 percent and had used his own money to buy a large amount of GM stock, which he said is now worth very little. He did not say he was willing to make more significant pay cuts.

Wagoner earned about $15.7 million in compensation in 2007, according to a GM regulatory filing in April.

When Nardelli was asked during a Senate hearing on Tuesday if he would be willing to cut his salary to $1, Nardelli said: "I'd be willing to accept that."
 

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So what's wrong with bending the rule one time for making a good appearance and taking a commercial flight? Especially when they needed to look poor. All things equal, the perception of taking the private jet looks like crap, not withstanding they looked like idiots even trying to answer simple questions that ANY good businessperson should be ready for. But I'm not going to dis them for taking a private jet. After all, it was a very important meeting and why strand them at O'Hare or some other airport? At least they'd all get there on time. It's a minor point actually. Had they nailed an excellent argument from their point of view, maybe the private jet thing could be overlooked. They acted rather desparate and not ready for prime-time. Contract or no, what are you going to do if they choose not to take the private jet? Fire them? No. Maybe they should have drove to Washington in one of their brand's cars. That would have made more of a statement of humbleness. But regardless of what they were or were not contracted to do, they came out looking like bad actors all the way around.

This does suck, but it also exposes how inexperienced these guys were in having to ask/beg for money. Maybe when/if the car companies get solvent again they'll keep that in mind when their people come to them asking for project money.

And it appears there will NOT be any vote any time soon anyway on any sort of deal from the Senate.

Whatever happens, I hope the big 3 survive, but it's looking tougher every day.
 

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I have no problem with the private jet. For a business that large it is probably justified with the amount of travel they do. Without a large cut in benefits to the union there will never be any way to turn around the company. Benefit cost will eat up the bail out money in short order. The union wants no part of helping out by renegotiating. I see the union as the bad guy in this drama. That is not to give a complete pass to the big three as they were irresponsible in negotiation those ridiculous benefits.
 

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Because it's assanine and not the issue at hand. They didn't berate the head of AIG this way, and he did WAY worse things.
Red herring. AIG isn't the issue at hand either and doesn't apply to this particular issue. It's still perception from the public. Doesn't matter about the facts to the American public anymore. Earlier in the month should have already proven that.
 

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I think what should happen is congress needs to wake up from thier Infantile dreamworld with a b*tchslap of reality courtesy of the american public who support made in the USA automobiles and other goods and come to their sense in other words we need to bum rush congress with ar-15 and deman some proper solutions to prolonged problems.:lol::patriot:
 
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