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UAW strikes GM's Malibu plant in Kansas:
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I wish I could just walk off of my job and come back with better pay. BS.
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Ok, don't get me wrong - Unions have screwed up more than a few things in the past....
I was brought up in a Union house. My dad delievered beer from 1954-1975. He then became a business agent for the Teamsters - save all your jokes, I have heard them all :BangHead:
He was able to provide for his family of 4, put food on the table (although a lot of meatloaf in the 70's when times were tough), put two kids thought catholic school, private high school (for me) and college degrees (BA and MA). He was able to do this partly because he wanted me and my sister to have better than he and my mom did, but mostly by having a good union job and strong financial management (his first credit card was long into retirement). I know that times have changed, but we cannot ignore the fact that unions made working conditions safe, wages competitive, and health insurance available.
Now before you start "quoting" me all over this board, sure a lot of people F*$^ed this up, but that is a microcosom of society - there are people every where who screw good things up for others - the unions do not have a monopoly on this. I have seen the unions lose their focus the last 10-15 years - hell my sister has worked two union jobs since high school and has seen the union leaders get greedy and lose sight of the best interest of its members (much like politicians have lost sight of its constituency).
Just because we want something - the "COT" of Camaros - is not grounds to bash something that has unarguably provided certain amounts of good to many people over the years.
If you really want to ***** - call your congress man/woman and ask them how the US Airforce gave a military contract building fighter jets to a foreign country and not Lockheed or Boeing, hence stimulating a foreign economy and not our own.
Sorry, I will get off my soapbox for now.
I was brought up in a Union house. My dad delievered beer from 1954-1975. He then became a business agent for the Teamsters - save all your jokes, I have heard them all :BangHead:
He was able to provide for his family of 4, put food on the table (although a lot of meatloaf in the 70's when times were tough), put two kids thought catholic school, private high school (for me) and college degrees (BA and MA). He was able to do this partly because he wanted me and my sister to have better than he and my mom did, but mostly by having a good union job and strong financial management (his first credit card was long into retirement). I know that times have changed, but we cannot ignore the fact that unions made working conditions safe, wages competitive, and health insurance available.
Now before you start "quoting" me all over this board, sure a lot of people F*$^ed this up, but that is a microcosom of society - there are people every where who screw good things up for others - the unions do not have a monopoly on this. I have seen the unions lose their focus the last 10-15 years - hell my sister has worked two union jobs since high school and has seen the union leaders get greedy and lose sight of the best interest of its members (much like politicians have lost sight of its constituency).
Just because we want something - the "COT" of Camaros - is not grounds to bash something that has unarguably provided certain amounts of good to many people over the years.
If you really want to ***** - call your congress man/woman and ask them how the US Airforce gave a military contract building fighter jets to a foreign country and not Lockheed or Boeing, hence stimulating a foreign economy and not our own.
Sorry, I will get off my soapbox for now.
Since I was an Air Force Contracting Officer for 6 years, I'm curious as to which fighter jet is being built by a foreign company, considering Boeing got the F-22 contract and LM got the F-35 contract...So exactly WHICH fighter jet is being built overseas?
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Devryn,
My mistake, it is not a fighter jet, but a refueling tanker.
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/03/air_force_tanker_deal_could_be.html
My point still stands ...
My mistake, it is not a fighter jet, but a refueling tanker.
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/03/air_force_tanker_deal_could_be.html
My point still stands ...
You know nothing and your opinion is based on complete ignorance of the system. Do you realize that they would have been in deep poo if they'd awarded to any American company after Darleen Druyun screwed it up for Boeing? There were two companies positioned to make this type of equipment. Airbus was the only other choice since Darleen and Boeing were "in bed" together.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darleen_Druyun
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Back on topic:
We're talking about the strike at the Malibu and crossover factories. I'd like to know the logic for the strike on some of GM's best sellers.
"Neither GM nor the UAW would specify reasons for the strike"
If it's not important enough to come out and specify then why strike?
We're talking about the strike at the Malibu and crossover factories. I'd like to know the logic for the strike on some of GM's best sellers.
"Neither GM nor the UAW would specify reasons for the strike"
If it's not important enough to come out and specify then why strike?
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Devryn,
You may be correct on all the points above - but if you think outsourcing is good for America, why were you in the service? You took an oath to protect this country, and I thank you for your service. I would not have the freedom I do today with out the selfless sacrifice of the hundreds of thousdands of men and women in the aremed services, but how is putting money in a foreign enconomy good for the US, especially when our economy is suffering.
I do not doubt Darleen and Boeing were in bed together, but is that not the problem? The "system" you say I have no idea of continually lets the American people down. I have a president - that I voted for - that tells me everything is going to be ok. I have congress men and women doing all sorts of things trying to keep their cushy jobs and salaries and perks. Now if they gave you and all the people protecting this country those perks, instead of my school having to have a fundraised for a Marine Unit returing from Iraq who's families were on the verge of financial ruins - I would not *****.
The Point that I wanted to make, that still stands, was not one of a military issue, but rather, that unions were once the great equalizer for the working man. It is easy for people now to jump on them because they have lost their way.
If you don't like it, protest the FTA. The rules are the rules. In the Air Force, I didn't have the power to question them.
Now, that being said, I'm the largest believer of Small Business you'll probably find in government contracting (at least in AZ). I've been pushing for two years to start a small business program where certified small businesses can get preference on certain types of contracts (IMO anything valued up to $250K should be set aside for small business). Big business doesn't help our economy as much as you might think. Boeing certainly has no lack of things to do. You wouldn't see a significant boost to anything but Boeings stock if they'd gotten the contract (which they rightfully lost because of THEIR shady business practices). What is a Contracting Officer supposed to do when two proposals are received and one disqualified themselves by cheating? If the other price is fair and reasonable, you award to the only other available respondent. It takes a year or more to prepare an acquisition on this scale. There simply would not be time to recompete the contract.
Now, back on track about unions:
During America's industrial revolution and shortly thereafter, there was a big need for unions. Workers had to make fair wages in a relatively safe working environment. A large part of a unions goals were protecting the uneducated and unskilled worker.
That being said, American has past it's industrial age. We're not an industrial nation any longer. China is in the throws of it's industrial stage, and Mexico will probably never get our of theirs. The industries that we DO have are now made safe by Government rules and regulations which mandate stringent safety requirements.
The cost of everything in this country is raising exponentially. The basic materials used in industries like the automotive industry have costs that are not controlled by just our Country, but by the world market. Steel and Aluminum have OUTRAGEOUS prices right now. There are only a few things companies can do to control costs, not the least of which is lowering wages. Sure, they could cut your medical or retirement benefits plans, but in the end, would you rather get a small paycut or benefits cut? Most of these guys have families, and it would be easier for them to make up the shortfall in budget than paying out in healthcare.
The point is the day for unions, if it hasn't passed, should be severely limited. It's all well and good to fight for the worker, but don't bring down the company or your industry in the process. Unions can ***** all they want about CEO salaries, but the fact is, that CEO is educated, and his/her salary/benefits wouldn't go very far when spread out among the thousands of workers that want higher pay.
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"The cost of everything in this country is raising exponentially. The basic materials used in industries like the automotive industry have costs that are not controlled by just our Country, but by the world market. Steel and Aluminum have OUTRAGEOUS prices right now." -- Devryn
At least we agree on something.
As for the CEO's being educated and the members not, I will agree and concede that most union members are greedy and only want the money. But tell that to a teacher (who's union in Los Angeles is pretty f****d up by its own right) who does not have books or has 40 students, or kids who do not speak the language. The union is the only way to stave off problems.
I am not saying that unions are the end all be all. There time has passed - at least in its current form.
Finally, and I do not want to belabor the point :BangHead: - you have the right to you opinion (more than most because of your service to our county) and I have mine. The tough part for me with regards to management vs labor - I am paying $4 a gallon for gas and the Oil Companies are making record profit. I guess it is supply and demand. I could quit my current job and look for a higher paying job, as I do have 2 degrees, but I love what I do. Remember, all these CEO's have great educations - not without teachers, who seem to get the short end of the stick anyway.
At least we agree on something.
As for the CEO's being educated and the members not, I will agree and concede that most union members are greedy and only want the money. But tell that to a teacher (who's union in Los Angeles is pretty f****d up by its own right) who does not have books or has 40 students, or kids who do not speak the language. The union is the only way to stave off problems.
I am not saying that unions are the end all be all. There time has passed - at least in its current form.
Finally, and I do not want to belabor the point :BangHead: - you have the right to you opinion (more than most because of your service to our county) and I have mine. The tough part for me with regards to management vs labor - I am paying $4 a gallon for gas and the Oil Companies are making record profit. I guess it is supply and demand. I could quit my current job and look for a higher paying job, as I do have 2 degrees, but I love what I do. Remember, all these CEO's have great educations - not without teachers, who seem to get the short end of the stick anyway.
Teaching is not an industry, though I do agree teachers need higher pay, they'll never get it, because teaching isn't very high on the hierarchy in a capitalist society. Because they're not an "industry" they have no bargaining chip. They could try to walk out, but nobody is going to give them a stipend to help keep them afloat during a strike.
Oh, and I doubt your college professors were hurting for money.
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