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Discussion Starter #1
I think I made a thread about this before, but with the ecnomomy and GM like it is right now, is a Firebird in our future?

Pontiac is my favorite brand and The Firebird is my favorite pony car. I would love the see the 'Bird back and I think it has a good platform to do so. If Chevy can sell Camaro well do you think Pontiac will step in with their Firebird?

I like the "new" GTO, but I think the Firebird would be a much better choice. I hope if Pontiac chooses to bring out a V8 RWD car, let it be the Bird!

Thought?
 

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i, too, love the birds. hell, i wanted to marry my Firehawk before i met Scott :lol:

never say never... but i don't see it in the immediate future. :(
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
I was reading an article from '08 that Pontiac wasn't doing anything for 2 years. Perfect for them to see how Camaro does! IMO, the firebird is much more known than the GTO, however I may be wrong..it's my opinion. If they released Firebird over GTO, I think we would see more sales and Pontiac would be much better off.

EDIT: They tried GTO already, give Firebird a chance! :D
 

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I hope too, as I own a 05 GTO and would love to see a new Pontiac bird! But I doubt it for now, Pontiac has the G8 GT and G8 GXP for rwd performance and in this economy we are very lucky they still have those. I've grown to love Pontiacs when I thought I'd never drive anything but a Chevy to my grave!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I IMO, the firebird is much more known than the GTO, however I may be wrong..it's my opinion.
Fixed :lol:

USMC: I think it's time for Pontiac to have a 2 door RWD to compete with the Mustang, Challenger, and Brother Camaro! :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Chevy and Pontiac did it for 35 years, they can't do it again. :) I don't actually mean try to take out the Camaro, just jump in and compete.
 

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IMO, the firebird is much more known than the GTO, however I may be wrong..it's my opinion.
wha?? The GTO started the whole Muscle car era back in 64. If the firebird is more well known, then I don't know as much as I wish I did.:lol: I do think it would be called the Firebird though, because as soon as I hear GTO now, my mind goes straight to the boring (no offense to the GTO owners (gto in nc, USA1Camaro, etc. Your GTO's are awesomeness.):lookandleave:) Holden-based coupe that almost single-handedly killed every human's childhood dreams. However I may be wrong..it's my opinion.
 

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Chevy and Pontiac did it for 35 years, they can't do it again. :) I don't actually mean try to take out the Camaro, just jump in and compete.
I think maybe you are not paying attention, perhaps. GM is struggling to keep itself intact at the moment. Competing with itself by spending millions of dollars to develop products for which the primary target is its own product is exactly like a restaurant owners saying, "Gosh! Business is down now right now because of a bunch of factors including other establishments that have opened nearby. What to do, what to do? -- maybe I need to open another restaurant that serves the same food in this very same shopping center. That oughta help..."
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I myself won't buy a 5thgen camaro, but I would buy a 5thgen firebird, therefore it would created buyers.

Plus I said after a few years, not right now. What if GM sells tons of Camaros, then would the firebird be a waste of money then?

If anything was a waste of money imo, it's the G8.
 

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I myself won't buy a 5thgen camaro, but I would buy a 5thgen firebird, therefore it would created buyers.

Plus I said after a few years, not right now. What if GM sells tons of Camaros, then would the firebird be a waste of money then?

If anything was a waste of money imo, it's the G8.
Yes, it would probably still be a waste of money. Let's say that (just to pick a number for the sake of discussion) that GM makes an average profit of $2,000 per F-body sold (I suspect that's high), NOT counting the investment in development and capital to bring the Camaro to market. Let's say, then, that they are wildly successful and sell a hundred thousand a year. That is roughly $200 million a year in "profit". (I put profit in quotes because that is a waaay whacked interpretation that seriously underestimates the real cost of production but we need to keep it simple for the moment.)

Now let's assume that GM decides to create a Firebird version. New front and rear fascias, new trim, new interior components, new badging, new marketing, new order-handling & production management, etc. Let's be REALLY optimistic here and say that all this only costs GM $10 million. Let's also assume that not one single person who buys a new Firebird would have been a potential Camaro buyer. Just to recover the investment in developing the additional model in a year would require the sale of 5,000 Firebirds just to "break even". So, let's say that GM sells 20,000 Firebirds, pushing the F-body "profit" from $200M to $230M. That's a 15% return on an investment of 5%, or $30M for $10M, right? Sounds sweet, eh?

But hold on a minute... We completely ignored the real cost of bringing the Camaro to market, and the real cost of bringing the Firebird to market, and the cannibalistic aspect of competing with youself. Let's ignore the "real costs" for the moment but look at some more likely production/sales numbers.

The plant in Oshawa is expected to ramp up to something like 400 per day, which translates to about 80,000 per year. Let's say that you are a non-trivial representation of, oh, 5% of the buyers -- that is, let's say that 5% of the people who buy a Firebird would have bought something other than a Camaro had the Firebird not been offered. Let's further just assume a 50/50 split between Camaros & Firebirds (which is historically high.) This means 40,000 Firebirds per year, only 2000 of which are "new sales". At that rate, it would take 2.5 years just to recover the cost of developing the new Firebird, even if we totally oversimplfiy the effects on production costs, on distribution & marketing and servicing and such. That's a VERY optimistic projection and it means spending $10,000,000 in cold, hard cash now and hoping to break even in 30 months.

Smart move here is to flatten both product line & distribution model. GM is already moving in that direction, BTW...


P.S. I didn't check any of my math so the numbers may be screwy but I made them all up in the first place! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I think your getting way to into it man. I lost concentration halfway through your post but making a profit doesn't happen over night. So 2.5 years for profit is probably better than some other guys.
 

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I hope GM is not thinking about it right now, being that we are on a loan from the government with people not wanting us to get more aid. I hope GM won't think about until we get the current issue we are in is taken care of. I would like to see a Firebird in the future but we don't have the money to even think about it right now.
 

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....is a Firebird in our future?
Okay... First all rights are reserved on this idea and recorded with the proper persons. Second, if someone wants to move on this idea, all I ask is for 25%..

With that said...

It wouldn't be too hard to replace the front and rear clip with custom peices that resemble the photoshop firebirds I have seen on this site. Change a few badges, put a giant bird decal on the hood and there you go...

a Firebird! Just make sure to keep your Camaro parts for resale if desired. They do this all the time with Silverados (changing to an escalade front end) why not the Camaro.

That said.... Give me a Camaro SS anytime! That car defines the pony car era.

PS
Have your lawyer contact me to work out the details:D
 
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